Dream layout Modeling the cno&tp

Badhorse79 · February 21, 2012, 06:24:47 PM

I was looking through the 1994 version of the CNO&TP track chart and was thinking....How awesome it would be to lease a warehouse and start at gest st yard all the way to Chattanooga ! Plus have an extension of the Louisville district ! Hmm maybe a nice retirement idea! Now all I have to do is draw this baby up and dream on huh! Just wanted to throw this out there! Heck even may build a place instead of lease that would suck getting to Danville and the leaser tell ya "Gotta Go" anyway ideas welcome!

Backyard · February 21, 2012, 07:51:10 PM

Well, I have the entire 1st, 2nd & 3rd Districts on DEM/Topo map overlays in 1/3rd arc-sec resolution.

They are three separate routes for Auran Trainz TS2009.

I have not started these areas, I am too busy doing Atl-Chatt on the Atlanta North District.

lwjabo · February 21, 2012, 09:39:35 PM

Back Yard you going to put the K & I line in it? You provide the beer and I will visit and add my 2 cents worth. Even tell you where some of the old depot were and when they built or extended the siding in my days. That going back to the days when all pictures were in black and white. Not many folks think about the 152 miles between Atlanta and Chattanooga.

Backyard · February 21, 2012, 10:19:57 PM

I got the K-Line if you mean Krannert, and the C-Line but what is the I-Line?

I'm up in the middle of Tennessee and am out of a job, so I get what you post.

I for one keep up with everything North Atlanta District. Bob Woodward is planning a scanner at a friend's house in Rome, that should pick up from Dalton to Finch or Braswell, that should tie ATCS Monitor in with the map he already has.

I have a "first version" of the route from Jersey(Brown) to Bolton. I run about 8-trains at a time including Run 1 to the mill in Rome. I also have the Florida Rock mine at West Rome. I have seen five four-axle units pull that train out headed for Chattahoochee...6-days a week, though they did go for one 4-axle and two 6-axle units at the end. They sounded good pulling Braswell Mt!

The man out to Krannert, pulled a caboose well into the nineties, I guess to back across Alabama Hwy(20), Shorter Avenue. I know they upgraded the C-Line and ran the Krannert Job out that way. I think they still pull clay out of there to this day.

Is the Temple Inland paperboard plant still active?

lwjabo · February 22, 2012, 12:01:27 PM

The K line was original Southern. The C line was CofG. The K line starts at Fox and goes to Krannert. Fairbanks jct was where the CofG crossed the K line. The rock hole was on the CofG. The I line goes from Cohutta to Bradley at Cleveland Tn. I retired 1 Dec. 2005. As far as I know the paper mill still runs. The mud tracks load if there is a need for brick. Building around Atlanta is way down so doubt much mud is being loaded. The original line from Chattanooga to Atlanta went through Cleveland. Some where around 1880 the ETV&G made the white cut off over Howardville. Soon after the War of Norther Aggression the ETV&G cut the line in from Dalton to Rome. The old Mobile branch is the original line but they realised Atlanta was growing and the Yankees had made it the state capital. So the line from Atlanta Jct. at the Mobile Branch to Atlanta was built. That is why the H line zigs and zags over north west Georgia. Some folks try to tell you there was no line from Cleveland to Dalton before Sherman marched through. It was and was shown on some maps. While I was working the siding at Hiram was extended twice. The siding at McPherson was extended and so was the one at Braswell. The extension of Braswell was soon after the tunnel was by passed. They extended the siding at Perkins once. The name Perkins was changed around 1990. It Ollie now. Named after the Chief Dispatcher OEF. The siding at Brice was extended around 1977 they changed the CofG to come in at Green. The siding at Atlanta Jct was extended 1 mile to Lindale and the name changed. Pinson was extended when CTC was cut in north of Forrestville. Now Berwin. The siding at Phelps was built and it was cut in when the signals system was changed to CTC. The south end of Cohutta was extended and cut in when CTC got there. They then extended the old siding at Hair north to the L&N. They rebuilt the I line around 1975. They made it automatic Block around 1985 I think it was. They built the siding at Waring around 1985 I think it was and It was connected to Cohutta around 1990 or a little later. Then they connected the sidings of Braswell and McPherson and extended it south to where the signal is now. They have made two more extensions that I know sine I retired. The one at Cohutta north to the state line and the one at Lindale to near the old signal at Chambers where the CofG came in. They also built the siding just north of Oostanulla. I note spell check does not like the old Cherokee names. Most of the guys I worked with have retired. So only talk to one still working and about once a year another guy. Both are engineers. That is enough for now.

fireball451 · February 22, 2012, 06:56:14 PM

Get a club started and Im there!!!!
Sound like an awesome layout idea!!!

Badhorse79 · February 22, 2012, 07:08:25 PM

Alright... I have 2 of us ! Lol now all we need is a central locale ?

E.M. Bell · February 22, 2012, 08:19:00 PM

Lets see here... The CNO&TP is about 325 miles end to end, not counting the yards in Cinncy or Chatt, and the Louisville District is right at 96 miles long.

In HO scale, how many feet of layout does that work out to be?

cmherndon · February 22, 2012, 08:36:42 PM

To figure this out, I used a figure of 60.1 feet per HO mile (5280/87) and then multiplied that by actual mileage.

Just for the main lines of the CNO&TP and LS, you'd need 25,302.1 feet of track. Start figuring in sidings, double track, and yards, and you'll be looking at close to 30,000 feet.

In other words, that's on helluva layout.

Sent from my SHARP-ADS1 using Tapatalk

Badhorse79 · February 22, 2012, 08:45:39 PM

Yeah I figure if the Pasadena RR club can do it! East side needs to get a ball rolling at least ! I don't see it really happening but it would be an awesome feat and getting a great group of Jrebers together and think about I wouldn't ask for anything more

Badhorse79 · February 22, 2012, 08:54:11 PM

PS how many sheets of grid paper ya think that is lol

NSMoWandS · February 22, 2012, 09:12:09 PM

8 by 11? about a billion! haha!

E.M. Bell · February 22, 2012, 09:12:20 PM

Now of course, just to save space, you could do it pre-1953. A good bit of it would be undergound, that would save on scenery and you could reduce the total trackage some by using the tunnels to "skip" to different levels via a couple of helix's. Make a 2 or 3 level layout that way and not need near as much room!

OK..I am out of this. Yall get it built and I will start dusting off my Southern stuff to run

Ponce de Leon · February 22, 2012, 09:42:03 PM

Quote from: E.M. Bell on February 22, 2012, 08:19:00 PM
Lets see here... The CNO&TP is about 325 miles end to end, not counting the yards in Cinncy or Chatt, and the Louisville District is right at 96 miles long.

In HO scale, how many feet of layout does that work out to be?

Quick answer: more than my garage would hold, even if I twisted it around on multiple levels.

I would only model the second district if it were me--because that's the "good stuff."

Badhorse79 · February 22, 2012, 09:46:57 PM

Yeah that might be the case Ron! How ever I would bring staging out of SJ tower and the way I could throw the Louisville sub in! And most of the good stuff is below Danville except high bridge also I could use Dan/Chat. As a double staging yard hmmm maybe this will be more down to earth huh

NSMoWandS · February 22, 2012, 10:19:01 PM

Using a staging yard that connects to both ends of ur RR is a great idea... that way one yard is two places... and during open houses you can run it as a loop. That is how I do it.

Backyard · February 22, 2012, 11:34:12 PM

8)Thanks for the info LW, yes it is time to take it back to the Georgia Division side!

I'm telling you guys that you can run mile-long trains down the CNO&TP in Trainz!

Think about it...you are at TVRM sitting in a locomotive with scanner on listening to the Georgia Division or Central Division dispatcher(the track beside the museum is the Georgia Division, North Atlanta District dispatcher west (north) up to the signals at Jersey). You are imagining you have that train in tow and are about to cross over into the Central Division(or visa-verse)....

Or, you are at the throttle of a fully scenicked model railroad(when have you last seen on not in construction-of course they are never finished!). You ease the throttle out in momentum on three locomotives(steam or Diesel), and pull maybe 30-cars over hopefully more than flat scenery, to get the "slack" to run in or out experience...

Or your sitting at a PC with a RailDriver desktop controller like in a widecab desktop, with three BN SD70's and 124-HYWX animated 5-bay hoppers for a total weight of around 15,000-tons...you do nothing fast, and you're in wonder if you shall make it over Cohutta grade...or not...LWJabo says it will...

IT'S ALL IN YOUR MIND! No offense intended, but it is cheaper, totally more realistic because you have more factors in play than even if you worked on the railroad. You fully realize what it's like in the cab, plus you can use tracking cameras to watch your own train roll by(panning). Or you can dispatch many trains and switch to a particular location or train for a rolling run-by.

Locomotives steam or Diesel, new and old rolling stock, scenery, etc are being produced practically every week...most of it is freeware, I have never paid more than ten dollars for a locomotive, most all rolling stock is freeware. Automated Running Numbers automatically assign to cars when placed and you never see two of the same car if so equipped. Steam locomotives run out of water & fuel if you don't hit the tower or plug in time, cabooses you can RIDE!

However, if you want to spend twenty dollars for each powered switch, $140+ for each locomotive, $30+ for each car, then go back and look for short circuits or heat-kinks or sagging timber, it's a free country! But don't give up because you cannot get 1/4th the value of what you put in anyway...

I rest my case...

ARandall70 · February 23, 2012, 09:20:19 AM

Backyard, I think you make a good case for the Train Sim community, but for me, personally, after a while it just didn't do it for me. I had Microsoft Train Simulator the day it was released, and for a couple of years, I really enjoyed it. But at that time I was in my early teens and could not afford the models I have now, so it was an acceptable substitute. Now I try to minimize my time at the computer as much as possible, i'm on it enough already.

I can run trains of over 200 cars with the group I am part of, so running prototypical length trains does not attract me to simulators. I think the biggest attribute for Trainz and Train Simulator may be the ability to have full scale operating sessions, with all scheduled trains, dispatchers, yardmasters, etc, from the comfort of people's homes, without the work required to build a club layout. I have heard of a few groups that do this, and as someone who likes dispatching as much as running trains that would be fun for me.

But in the end, it is not as satisfying to me. When I finish putting a few details on a model, or add a DCC decoder, or do some other work on my models, I find it very satisfying. Yeah, the stuff is expensive, but it is what you make of it. I have just over 30 NS, CSX, and Amtrak Diesels, many with Sound and DCC, and have never paid $200 for a locomotive. I don't consider that to be too much, and I can touch it, run it, watch it, photograph it, hear it, and take it across the east coast with our modular group layout and share it with others, so It's worth every penny in the enjoyment I get from modeling. And I'm in college, so if I can afford it almost anyone can. When I have someone over who is not into the hobby, I can proudly display my collection on the wall, and most people can appreciate the hobby.

In the end, this discussion reflects the great thing about this hobby, that there are so many facets that it is hard not to find something to like. If you like simulators, thats fine. Even if its virtural, It's your railroad, and in the end that is all that matters.

MP15NUT · February 23, 2012, 12:09:33 PM

My dream is to model the entire rail line from Newark all the way down to Cape Charles and the Indian River Secondary to exact scale, but will most likely only model between Harrington and Salisbury with the Indian River Secondary.

NSMoWandS · February 23, 2012, 04:19:35 PM

MPNUT, why not just model to Cassett Movable Bridge and the interchange with Eastern Shore... unless you want a carfloat... My freelanced model is base upon the NS Delmarva Sec... But, just the Yard at Harrington with the track down to NRG in Indian River... I am planning an extension in he future that will be the line down to Delmar... All this in an 8x17 ft room... with a staging yard(4 tracks now...6 later) in a area under the stairs(4x9). I run a freight each way... coal trains(loaded & empties) have a yard local and a local down to I.R. When I expand... I will add a local to Delmar and a local out of Delmar. And already now... it is more than one guy can handle. Takes me about 4 three hour sessions just to complete a 24 hour cycle. But, I can have two operators... then it is uually 2 three hour sessions... but as my dad always says... it's your layout... and you're God!

MP15NUT · February 23, 2012, 10:05:21 PM

I own the whole line as the Delmarva Central

. I own the ns, bay coast and delaware coast line

Badhorse79 · February 23, 2012, 10:41:33 PM

Well after further thought! 1st district is more sutible for me!
A: more industries included toyota plant and brown power Lexington station area! And my most favorite place SJ tower
B: Erlanger grade
C: Its closely paced by Route 25 witch me and ken use to use all the way from Walton to Crittenden
D: I could easily drive and take pics of buildings, landscape , and so on!
So im gonna get a plan together with my chart and memory and see what I get

butch · February 24, 2012, 08:12:06 AM

C. I grew up in Crittenden and raced many trains between Crittenden and Dry Ridge in my teenaged years.

Ptrainman · February 24, 2012, 09:27:52 AM

I would be a neat idea to model the entire CNO&TP, it would be huge though. I would love to model the Virginia Division from Roanoke to Norfolk including the Durham District. I would be a little smaller than yours. haha

Paul

Ponce de Leon · February 24, 2012, 05:29:50 PM

Quote from: Ptrainman on February 24, 2012, 09:27:52 AM
I would be a neat idea to model the entire CNO&TP, it would be huge though. I would love to model the Virginia Division from Roanoke to Norfolk including the Durham District. I would be a little smaller than yours. haha

Paul

Why not model the Rat Hole as it was in the early 20th century, say about 1918-19? Nearly all of the tight, tight tunnels would be in place, and you could run 2-10-2s that would barely fit (and would usually stall about half way through the longest tunnels, nearly killing their engine crews). I would suggest rather robust smoke generators to achieve maximum realism, but you'll have to keep big fans rolling through the train room to keep the air clear.

You could also have a string of manned interlocking towers to keep all this traffic rolling. And finally, throw in several first-class passenger trains, and don't dare delay them. One more thing: gotta plan in frequent coal and/or water stops, because those hogs evaporate a lot of H20 and burn a lot of bituminous. You'll have to swap engines on many trains at Ferguson Shops, or maybe Danville or Oakdale too. Steam engines can't run from end to end of the railroad without a visit to the roundhouse or shop for an Alemite grease treatment of its rods and valve gear, getting its fire cleaned, a monthly ICC-required boiler wash, or any number of nagging issues. You'll need to have two or three trains a day fail en route with hot bearings, broken rods, slipped tires, faulty injectors, inability to raise sufficient steam, or many more ills. That means you'll have to get a relief engine (and crew) out there to unplug the railroad (because it will always be somewhere on single track), and you'll have to find a way to bring the wounded engine back to the nearest shop for attention. Again---do NOT delay any of the passenger trains!!

Just think about what kind of people it took to "railroad" back then. It makes the current generation look kind of soft, does it not (with all due respects to my professional railroader friends---I'm just "sayin'" <g>)?