A Rat Hole Quickie

Started by Ponce de Leon, November 20, 2011, 11:17:19 AM

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Ponce de LeonTopic starter

On Friday I drove up to Louie-ville to speak at the annual KRM banquet. Of course I took the "scenic" route where possible, and took a few shots going and coming (some CSX, some NS). I didn't sleep well that night, so I ended up rolling back home (from Shepherdsville--a few miles south of Louisville) early enough that I was at Junction City at daybreak.

Going up, I caught a southbound rack train at Junction City (all shots are attached). With the old L&N Lebanon Branch gone since 1987, this place is now "junctionless." A Southern-controlled tower was once located in the northeast quadrant of the diamond. Of course the CS has always been fairly busy---but the L&N line was an early recipient of CTC. In the early '50s, the line was seeing 15 to 20 trains a day---including four passenger trains. The NC&StL merger in '57 started its downgrade, since Atlanta traffic was then shifted via Nashville and Chattanooga. The last passenger train (the nightly connection for the Flamingo) was discontinued in the summer of 1958. I rode the "LB" on that same train in 1955 with my grandparents. We rode coach, but there was an Atlanta-Louisville Pullman on the rear.

Anyway....I was back at Junction City the next morning at daybreak. Nothing in ear shot....so I decided to roll. At least one of the two classic SR signal bridges (with its searchlight signals) was still standing----so I squeezed off a shot (rejected by RP, by the way for "Poor Esthetic Qualities: <g>).

Heading down US 27 I stopped at Kings Mountain (lined for a northbound off track 2)---but I opted to continue southward. I just missed a cool back-lit shot of a northbound double stack at Norwood.

Finally, I caught up with a southbound (197 I think...) near Cumberland Falls. I sprinted my Prius (operating on a fresh set of AA batteries) to Flat Rock for a quickie shot. The set-off spur in the foreground is a remnant of the former main that swung off to the east here to Cumberland Falls---with two tunnels (I think---didn't check to verify) that were eliminated.

Going back north, I walked in to shoot a lonely stretch of the former main line (prior to 1963) near Sloan's Valley. I really need to explore this place like Emmit and Butch---including the tunnels. I find it haunting to think big green Ps-4 Pacifics with Wimble smoke ducts thundered up this hill with the Royal Palm.....or a quartet of SD24s came this way with the "Spark Plug." Now, it's just a muddy hiking trail.

From there, I headed for SW Virginia. There's always a good reason to go back, though....
Ron Flanary

Michael Knight

Bravo, Ron! Well-done photography and reporting of the scenes you captured so well! Much oblige for sharing!

After heading back, were you out this weekend to see the Santa Train and other action on the old Clinchfield and Appalachian District?

(By the way, I'm going to send this thread to the Trip Reports/Photo Sharing sub-board so it will be more easily categorized and located.)

Ponce de LeonTopic starter

No, I missed the Santa train this weekend since I was coming home from Louisville. I suspect some JREB members might have chased it and done some photography, though.
Ron Flanary

Michael Knight

Quote from: Ponce de Leon on November 20, 2011, 02:15:58 PM
No, I missed the Santa train this weekend since I was coming home from Louisville. I suspect some JREB members might have chased it and done some photography, though.

I missed the Santa Train as well, but I'm looking forward to seeing pics from those who were there.

butch

Ron,

On your Flat Rock pic, I'm not sure about the spur, but for the former track with the tunnels you mentioned, you need to go back to just south of the Cumberland Falls signal at Parkers Lake.  There is a short spur there that follows the original grade for a couple of hundred yards.   The remains of Tunnel 11 are in the ridge right before 927 turns off US 27.  From there the old main rolled along the hills, through Tunnel 12-which is a short walk from an access trail-actually looped across the current US 27 and back through the ridge in front of the church by the Wiborg Loop Road overpass.  The cut has been filled in up to the church, but you can still see it between the church and the current tracks.
Butch Adkins


Railroad Tunnel hunting in Kentucky

Ponce de LeonTopic starter

Quote from: butch on November 21, 2011, 02:24:58 PM
Ron,

On your Flat Rock pic, I'm not sure about the spur, but for the former track with the tunnels you mentioned, you need to go back to just south of the Cumberland Falls signal at Parkers Lake.  There is a short spur there that follows the original grade for a couple of hundred yards.   The remains of Tunnel 11 are in the ridge right before 927 turns off US 27...

I still think the spur at Flat Rock is the south end of the line change you described (of course I could also be wrong!). The roll date of the steel, the date nails on the ties---plus the fact I used to hy-rail through there twice a week in 1972--kind of confirms what I was saying. Of course 40 years ago the tell-tale signs of the line changes were still pretty fresh. Granted, this track might have been shifted a bit to the east, but I do think that's it. It was there in 1972, and it's still there.

In 1972 you could still see the north portal of Tunnel 11 just south of Cumberland Falls. The spur you mentioned was there then. Highway realignment on US 27 wiped out the tunnel portal.
Ron Flanary

Ponce de LeonTopic starter

Upon closer examination, I pulled up some old USGS quads and sent this note to Butch:

I don't think the new line would have ever crossed the path of the old line----because that would have been an impossibility if they were to have maintained traffic at all times. I do know the old line split off at or near Flat Rock----because I saw it. My "crank hand" (the laborer who assisted me with track inspection work) was a long time veteran of the CNO&TP. He had been around since the '40s, and knew the railroad well. At that time, you could easily see many of the old traces of the old line at various locations.

That said....I think the split point between old and new may have been a little further north at Flat Rock. Attached is a JPEG of a 1952 quad map with this stretch. The line change swings further west than the old line---which included the two tunnels, plus a bridge that crossed US 27 on its alignment at that time.

I do suspect most of the track materials on the set off spur at Flat Rock today came from the old track work. Actually, I believe it's the former northbound main, since double track extended a little north of Flat Rock before the line change.

What do you think? Such railroad archeology is quite fun, I think!
Ron Flanary

E.M. Bell

Ron, I say phoooeeyyy (is that how you spell that??) on the PEQ of the signal shot at Junction...I love it, and that alone should be enough to get it in there for you :)

I have a lot of similar shots myself of the older signals bridges. I made it a goal a few years ago to start shooting that stuff every chance I could when it became clear the NS was going to start replacing them. I have done a lot of night stuff with them, with or without a train, and will be glad I did in a few years. If "they" dont like it, shame on them..

Tunnel #11...I ever tell you the story about the time I got chased out of that one by a bulldozer, right before the North portal was covered up?? 
E.M. Bell, KD4JSL
Salvisa, KY

      

Ponce de LeonTopic starter

Quote from: E.M. Bell on November 22, 2011, 02:08:19 PM
Ron, I say phoooeeyyy (is that how you spell that??) on the PEQ of the signal shot at Junction...I love it, and that alone should be enough to get it in there for you :)

I have a lot of similar shots myself of the older signals bridges. I made it a goal a few years ago to start shooting that stuff every chance I could when it became clear the NS was going to start replacing them. I have done a lot of night stuff with them, with or without a train, and will be glad I did in a few years. If "they" dont like it, shame on them..

Tunnel #11...I ever tell you the story about the time I got chased out of that one by a bulldozer, right before the North portal was covered up?? 

I'd love to hear your tunnel eviction story!

I have real heartburn with RP's "PEQ" rejections. That's purely a personal preference on the part of any particular screener. I don't pretend to be the ultimate photographer in the world, but that was a shot I wanted. Had I not thought it to be "good," I wouldn't have uploaded it. The proper thing to do would be to accept it, and let those who look at RP be the judge. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to photographers----particularly those who have been posting to RP since day one (as I have).

The one shot they did accept was that "snoozer" shot of the southbound auto rack train at Junction City. As of this morning, it had gotten a screaming 151 viewings and zero "favorited" selections. I'm actually ashamed I uploaded something that common. However, they rejected all the "cool" shots and accepted that stunningly boring shot.

I think "phoooeeyy" is spelled "horse s__t" :)
Ron Flanary

Ponce de LeonTopic starter

Butch and I have exchanged a few e-mails off list...but I'll add some comments before I have to jump ship (I'll be out of the loop a few days since my wife is having back surgery tomorrow).

I'm not a whiz at Photoshop, but I was able to add a current-day map (same scale) over the 1953-era map between "Cumberland Falls" (the control point, that is) and Flat Rock. I had to use the mouse to trace the pre-'63 and post-'63 alignments in color---but it's close enough for this purpose. I reduced the opacity of the current day map to about 45 percent to make sure I could match up known points.

Butch suspected the lines actually crossed---and it appears they did. However, I think I may be close in my guess on the point where they came together at the south end----which would be near that spur I mentioned. I am increasingly of the opinion that spur is a remnant of the old northward main.

I noted the locations of Tunnels 11 and 12 on the old line. Before the line change, this was a very short stretch of single track on the "old" CNO&TP. I know there was an interlocking tower at the "Falls" in the past---and maybe one at Flat Rock too (I don't have that data in front of me right now---so that's a guess).

Comments....corrections....rebuttal? Again, I find this fascinating!
Ron Flanary

kbarnett

Here is a pic I found on the internet of FR tower at Flat Rock with the CTC bungalow. I would guess a RR pic of the new installation. A friend of mine's mother-in-law grew up in Flat Rock and she said that FR tower was across US 27 from her house. It was between the Wiborg rd. crossing and the present day signal maintainers shack.

butch


When I compare Ron's topo with a 1981 topo, I have to stick with my conclusion that the CNO&TP did cross over the current main in some form at Wiborg and then loop back.  The later map shows the cut between Wiborg and Flat Rock that was abandoned in 1963.  And the 1963 line changes did cross the original grade in at least two other places that I can think of.  One was north of Kings Mtn., and the other was between T23 and T24 at Nemo.    On the other hand, maybe they did the work between Wiborg and Flat Rock first since it was a short stretch of track.  Then later they tied in the new alignment from Cumberland Falls...

Butch Adkins


Railroad Tunnel hunting in Kentucky

Ponce de LeonTopic starter

Quote from: butch on November 23, 2011, 08:43:00 AM

When I compare Ron's topo with a 1981 topo, I have to stick with my conclusion that the CNO&TP did cross over the current main in some form at Wiborg and then loop back. 

I agree. In fact, that little map I worked up shows the lines crossing, as you described.
Ron Flanary