I saw the pic of the Chinese steamer in Alabama, train 170, due in Chattanooga about 10pm. What route will it take out of there, and when is it called to leave? Or is already gone?
Quote from: Nightlight on January 11, 2008, 11:14:55 PM
I saw the pic of the Chinese steamer in Alabama, train 170, due in Chattanooga about 10pm. What route will it take out of there, and when is it called to leave? Or is already gone?
Is this steamer RJ Cormans 2-10-2? If so then I think I may no what im gonna try to hunt down tommorow.
The sign on it says RJ Corman.
Where did you see the loco picture? I'd love to see it.
The Chinese steam engine is in Chattanooga, Tenn. right now.
Anyone know when it will head North on the CNO&TP ????? ??? ???
Has it been a High And Wide Special move or on a regular train ????? ???
Train Number ????? ??? ???
Thanks
(https://www.jreb.org/ns/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nslocos.com%2Fchinese.jpg&hash=fc0bbff5e0786e155baeba8cdf846c21d69e177c)
Quote from: swalker on January 12, 2008, 07:33:59 PM
Anyone know when it will head North on the CNO&TP ????? ??? ???
Has it been a High And Wide Special move or on a regular train ????? ???
Train Number ????? ??? ???
Thanks
Will it stay on NS 170?
FYI - RJCC QJ Class #7040 scheduled to depart Chattanooga tonight on NS train
#144 northbound. Expect arrival in Lexington on Sunday morning January 13, 2008
around 9:00 AM or so, but could be earlier or later. As always, this is subject
to change at any time depending on the railroad and operating conditions.
NS train north called out of Danville at 09:20 AM Sunday with QJ 7040 in
tow. Engine should be set out at the NS/RJCC connector (under W. Main) that the Brown coal
train uses
FWIW, that was sat off about 1000 this morning at the Connection. Im sure RJ has it safely tucked away in his container box engine house by now.
I dont really see what all the hub bub is over this thing. All of our good American jobs have went to China (and other places), you cant hardly buy anything anymore that is not made over there, and then Corman goes and gets one of those ugly QJ's from over there. Kinda sad really...plenty of Steam engines that would have been suitable right here in the good ol USA, with good US steam men that could have done the work on them but he wants to support a communist nation instead. Thats says a lot for RJC in my own opinion.
Glad that thing is off the NS for we dont have to hear anything further about it here. Im sure the KY railfan list and the RJC list will be even more alive than usual with all the folks ready to cream their jeans over the "QJ" and any other information can be found there.
Quote from: E.M. Bell on January 13, 2008, 06:06:44 PM
FWIW, that was sat off about 1000 this morning at the Connection. Im sure RJ has it safely tucked away in his container box engine house by now.
I dont really see what all the hub bub is over this thing. All of our good American jobs have went to China (and other places), you cant hardly buy anything anymore that is not made over there, and then Corman goes and gets one of those ugly QJ's from over there. Kinda sad really...plenty of Steam engines that would have been suitable right here in the good ol USA, with good US steam men that could have done the work on them but he wants to support a communist nation instead. Thats says a lot for RJC in my own opinion.
Glad that thing is off the NS for we dont have to hear anything further about it here. Im sure the KY railfan list and the RJC list will be even more alive than usual with all the folks ready to cream their jeans over the "QJ" and any other information can be found there.
That's funny. Don't forget about the lead paint! ;D
Funniest thing about this is GE is sending some of it's latest technological creations to China, and we're buying all their nostalgic shit, and I do mean SHIT. The Chinese were selling the things for a reason, because they were old, worn out, and all but worthless, but great "Americans" like RJ Corman felt the need to patronize a nation which breeds communism.
Steamtown has all sorts of locomotives that they would have JUMPED at the opportunity to sell to RJ Corman to have restored, and probably at a better price. But being a penny pinching corporate, narcissitic, slug, we should have known RJC would just go the cheapest route and not the patriotic one.
The QJ is as American as an SD70ACe.
I swear, someone could give some of you guys winning lottery tickets and you'd complain that they didn't give you cash up front instead. This Chinese xenophobia is absurd.
Quote from: K8DTI on January 13, 2008, 09:57:47 PM
This Chinese xenophobia is absurd.
I bet that's exactly what all those now out of a job factory workers are thinking too. . .
Quote from: K8DTI on January 13, 2008, 09:57:47 PM
I swear, someone could give some of you guys winning lottery tickets and you'd complain that they didn't give you cash up front instead. This Chinese xenophobia is absurd.
I don't think it's as much xenophobia as much as it's the fact that there are tons of those things in China, and the number of American steam engines that are in a condition that could be restored continues to wane every year. It's harder to become enamored by something that has a history that you are not aware of, and couldn't even pronounce the name of the railroad it was used on. There are many of us that go to museums and other repositories of rail history and see engines that would have great potential for restoration but their owners don't have the cash to finance the restoration to make a profit off of these engines. It's just a shame to see these engines deteriorate every year while engines are imported because of a lower up front cost. In the end who wants to see something that they have no attachment to or sense of history of?
In my opinion it's not xenophobic to have national pride. After all can you break it down to exactly what an American looks like. We're the melting pot, so American is not a color, it's more of an ideal. Sadly people have begun to value a little bit of cost saving over supporting our industries, and now we are paying for it with all the problems due to the imports (lead content ect). I remember a day when Wal-Mart was proud to sell American made things, and now they are a driving force in the industrial growth of China. Perhaps the railroad will learn the Wal-Mart lesson.... if you buy something made abroad and cheaply to be sold cheaply, then don't be surprised when there are problems.
I agree with the sentiments that these things should've been left in China. I don't think they're that good looking. Granted, they are still steam but there's hundreds of deserving American-made steam engines out there. RJC could've taken his pick of about anything sitting in Roanoke or Steamtown and it would've been better than these things.
Every picture of a Corman train engine I have seen has been painted bright Red. Red, Chinese, connection? We all love a good conspiracy theory. I have to agree that the choice was in bad taste for an American company. Just think what good PR they would get if the right member of the press got wind of the story!
I wonder if they will repaint it. I can see it now. Bright Red Steamer in the horrendous red paint, and a big round banner on the front with a picture of the owner, just like the Chinese did with their Communist chairman !
I doubt there's a conspiracy theory, but they should check that thing for lead paint! Why not paint it red since it will look like a circus train anyway by the time they get through with it.
I bet that's exactly what all those now out of a job factory workers are thinking too. . .
[/quote]
You don't have to leave this country to find those responsible. Why don't you blame them instead.
8) Re: Chinese loco in Chattanooga?....Yes, and there's that Yellow Jacket #576 sitting in Nashville, dying of neglect
Why doesn't it bother anyone when rail traffic increases because America is shipping more goods in from China, Canada and Mexico? NAFTA is responsible for the biggest rail traffic increase since WW2. Our trade with China has increased intermodal traffic by leaps and bounds. Trade is what keeps our railroads running.
Also, the QJ does have its place in history. They were the last mainline steam locomotives produced and operated in the world. Thats pretty significant and when you tell Joe Schmo on the street that the locomotive was built in 1986 and last operated in 2005 they are pretty impressed.
Here is my last food for thought. I do agree there are plenty of American locomotives that could make great canidates for restoration but, they are either too big (611 and 1218), owned by museums (1522) or years and years away from operation (2716). Just because there is a locomotive in a park doesn't mean its a great canidate for restoration. Look at what has happened with the 1361. Chances are if there is a locomotive at Steamtown that isn't running or being restored, it's probably not the best canidate for restoration. Besides, if you are upset now, how upset would you be if RJ Corman restored 2716 and painted it red and silver and put his name on the side?
Who knows, this could be the start of another Ohio Central.
Quote from: Backyard on January 13, 2008, 11:41:40 PM
8) Re: Chinese loco in Chattanooga?....Yes, and there's that Yellow Jacket #576 sitting in Nashville, dying of neglect
How do you know its not a dead engine already? Until an ultrasound is done on the boiler, there is no telling if that locomotive could run again. Chances are you would have to spend several hundred thousand dollars just to find out if she is worth restoring and after that you have to find a place to run a large locomotive like that.
You could also just plan on replacing it and save the cost of having to prove it. The cost of a new boiler wouldn't be as expensive if you didn't have to spend the money on an ultrasound. I would think an experienced consultant could have a fairly good idea if it would be worth jumping into without having to test it, so it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to tell if it was worth restoring or not before you had to pay the cost for ultrasounding.
Quote from: jcmark4501 on January 13, 2008, 11:58:48 PM
Why doesn't it bother anyone when rail traffic increases because America is shipping more goods in from China, Canada and Mexico? NAFTA is responsible for the biggest rail traffic increase since WW2. Our trade with China has increased intermodal traffic by leaps and bounds. Trade is what keeps our railroads running.
So exactly how does buying a trophy engine so Corman can feel good about himself contribute to increasing rail traffic and helping more American's get work? What, half a dozen guys that happen to be very good at working with steam engines? Where's he going to get the parts when it breaks? China again?
Quote from: jcmark4501 on January 13, 2008, 11:58:48 PMAlso, the QJ does have its place in history. They were the last mainline steam locomotives produced and operated in the world. Thats pretty significant and when you tell Joe Schmo on the street that the locomotive was built in 1986 and last operated in 2005 they are pretty impressed.
It has it's place in CHINESE history, not AMERICAN history. Steam engines went away in the late 50's in the US, if you tell me as an average Joe Schmoe that you restored an engine that hasn't run under it's own power in 40+ years, THAT will impress me far more than having one that was running less than 5 years ago.
Quote from: jcmark4501 on January 13, 2008, 11:58:48 PMHere is my last food for thought. I do agree there are plenty of American locomotives that could make great canidates for restoration but, they are either too big (611 and 1218), owned by museums (1522) or years and years away from operation (2716). Just because there is a locomotive in a park doesn't mean its a great canidate for restoration. Look at what has happened with the 1361. Chances are if there is a locomotive at Steamtown that isn't running or being restored, it's probably not the best canidate for restoration. Besides, if you are upset now, how upset would you be if RJ Corman restored 2716 and painted it red and silver and put his name on the side?
You're right, but the did Corman even ask? I happen to know personally many of the employees at Steamtown have a list of the locomotives most likely to be restored.
Hell, some of them have a very detailed restoration plan already in place! All they needed was someone willing to finance the work! Many of them will require less of an investment than RJ paid for this hunk of junk, just more time to restore, but because he could get his rocks off about having an operating steam engine faster this way, that's the route he took.
Like the rest of America, we can get it faster and cheaper from China, so that's what we'll do, yet another example of how far America has gone down the shitter.
Actually, Grand Canyon Railway has bought many parts from China. Western Maryland Scenic has a stoker from China on their locomotive. Wouldn't be anything new for steam guys to get parts from China.
I was under the impression that most of the flue tubes had to come from either China or Germany.
I know people have batted around the "look at intermodal traffic" side, but consider this.. There was a time when the textile industry was big in the area where I am from. The railroads hauled more than just the finished product from a port to a destination. The raw cotton was shipped by rail to be ginned and carded, it was then reloaded and sent to a spinning mill. After the spinning mill it was taken to a cloth mill and then to a finishing mill. After the finished product was complete it would then be sent to market. Now the cotton trade has the product coming in finished or almost finished. The traffic was always there it was just in different forms. There may have been more traffic in the past, in fact. I'm sure this is the same with many other products and industries.
The things America makes are growing fewer and fewer, and as less is actually made here the intermodal traffic will rise. They are pulling traffic from other forms and replacing it with intermodal.
I just want to know how a Steam Locomotive generated a debate on the global economy, lol. I think beggars should not be choosers and we should just be happy we have steam back in this neck of the woods. Who knows what could happen next? Mr. Corman may decide to restore and engine after he runs this for a few years. I doubt anyone ever thought the Southern program would become what it was, and it was started by one guy buying a steam locomotive.
man this thread sure took a strange twist .
Quote from: jbcagle7073 on January 14, 2008, 12:17:45 AM
You could also just plan on replacing it and save the cost of having to prove it. The cost of a new boiler wouldn't be as expensive if you didn't have to spend the money on an ultrasound. I would think an experienced consultant could have a fairly good idea if it would be worth jumping into without having to test it, so it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to tell if it was worth restoring or not before you had to pay the cost for ultrasounding.
This was all done in China, supervised by Dennis Daugherty of the California State Railroad Museum. Additional boiler bracing and other minor alterations were necessary to bring the locomotive up to FRA Specifications. It received a full overhaul on both the boiler and running gear.
Andrew Durden
Atlanta, GA
Quote from: nsboxcar on January 14, 2008, 07:09:25 AM
Quote from: nsrayman on January 14, 2008, 06:06:41 AM
man this thread sure took a strange twist .
exactly
How about those Wildcats? Billy G finally got a good win.
Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, I was surprised they managed to pull that off. They looked like a totally different team IMO
Quote from: southern2716 on January 14, 2008, 11:09:31 AM
Quote from: jbcagle7073 on January 14, 2008, 12:17:45 AM
You could also just plan on replacing it and save the cost of having to prove it. The cost of a new boiler wouldn't be as expensive if you didn't have to spend the money on an ultrasound. I would think an experienced consultant could have a fairly good idea if it would be worth jumping into without having to test it, so it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to tell if it was worth restoring or not before you had to pay the cost for ultrasounding.
This was all done in China, supervised by Dennis Daugherty of the California State Railroad Museum. Additional boiler bracing and other minor alterations were necessary to bring the locomotive up to FRA Specifications. It received a full overhaul on both the boiler and running gear.
Andrew Durden
Atlanta, GA
I was refering to the statement that it would cost several hundred thousand to ultrasound the boiler. I was just pointing out it would be foolish to automatically have it ultasounded.
As for those of you missing the connection between buying a Chinese locomotive and economics... there are many people that are displeased that Corman would bypass all of the domestic engines that could be candidates for restoration and buy something Chinese. There is no connectivity to something that was made and ran in China. The purchase of one almost ready to run from China is just a symptom of the mindset of America today.
As for the beggars not being choosers... Many of us live nowhere near where this thing will run, so it being in the KY area doesn't affect many of us at all. Furthermore, it will never be able to run on NS, so it's not like it's going on tour or anything. It's just a play pretty for Corman up there. Bottom line is it is not more or less old hat. It rain on an NS train, and now its at it's destination. It was something you don't see every day, but it's not the second coming of Christ or anything. If they would have covered it with a tarp it would have been the event of the year.
No
American
Factories
Taking
Applications
:(
Quote from: southern man on January 15, 2008, 05:12:18 PM
No
American
Factories
Taking
Applications
:(
I'll have to remember that one.
True its not the second coming but it is interesting. Look back at all the varied debate it's sparked. Yes its a shame to not "buy American" but we all do it, that's why Wal-Mart's slogan is Low Prices and the parking lot's always full. Just because a guy owns his own railroad doesn't mean he's exempt. I doubt he got where he is listening to anybody and everybody with an opinion. I recieved a Tyco Steam Locomotive for christmas as a kid and started my love of trains. About three years ago I ran across the Corman diner train and the Wildcat and Cardinal engines from Paducah? in downtown Frankfort. I had a new digital camera and started taking pictures. Now I try to photograph anything railroad I can. Thirty years give or take in between. I owe RJC for renewing my interest in trains. That big bright red engine brought me back to railroading. I don't know why alot of people don't seem to like RJC much. To be honest I don't know what makes NS great and CSX suck, other than the fact this is a NS forum. I'm sure as time goes on I'll find my own reasons to lean one way or the other. Earlier someone said"A chinese steam loco has no American history." That was true till January 2008. Already it's gaining history. It traveled from Florida to Kentucky, in the open, for everyone to see. Thats a lot of grade crossings with a lot of people who would never consider going to a rail museum. They don't know whether it's American or Chinese just that its not something they see everyday. Don't kid yourself saying it doesn't affect you if your not in the Kentucky area, it already has. If it didn't pass through your neck of the woods, whose to say someone didn't pass by it. You can't tell me some kid didn't see that engine somewhere along the way and begin a life-long love of trains. Sure this sounds really melodramatic but isn't always. Look at the best pictures posted here, they have a Wow factor to them. Why because we love trains. This engine won't matter squat to most people in twenty years but to someone it will be the story of how they first got into railroading. Thats how hobbies grow and history gets made. I wish RJC good luck and hope they put the engine to good use. I would certainly go see it, and put a bug in their ear about some of the available US Steam.
And if RJC paints that thing solid Red I'll personally drive to Nicholasville and blow it up.
Disclaimer: The above statement is a joke and does not imply actual violence or damage to persons or property.
You can never be too careful. ;)
8) I thought of that long ago...buy the boiler, from China. No inspection necessary.
No one doubts the advantages of shipping from the Far East, to Europe, via the United States of America.
The Pirates along the seas south of Africa, did this.
Bill Purdy, and his wife Sarah in their retirement together, spent some time, in South Africa, and China, and Bill was enthralled with how intense the steam effort was in China, to service and maintain steam. They were full of stories, that would take your breath, of the history of their knowledge, let alone the Chinese technology.
Quote from: warpath42 on January 16, 2008, 01:00:26 AM
True its not the second coming but it is interesting. Look back at all the varied debate it's sparked. Yes its a shame to not "buy American" but we all do it, that's why Wal-Mart's slogan is Low Prices and the parking lot's always full. Just because a guy owns his own railroad doesn't mean he's exempt. I doubt he got where he is listening to anybody and everybody with an opinion. I recieved a Tyco Steam Locomotive for christmas as a kid and started my love of trains. About three years ago I ran across the Corman diner train and the Wildcat and Cardinal engines from Paducah? in downtown Frankfort. I had a new digital camera and started taking pictures. Now I try to photograph anything railroad I can. Thirty years give or take in between. I owe RJC for renewing my interest in trains. That big bright red engine brought me back to railroading. I don't know why alot of people don't seem to like RJC much. To be honest I don't know what makes NS great and CSX suck, other than the fact this is a NS forum. I'm sure as time goes on I'll find my own reasons to lean one way or the other. Earlier someone said"A chinese steam loco has no American history." That was true till January 2008. Already it's gaining history. It traveled from Florida to Kentucky, in the open, for everyone to see. Thats a lot of grade crossings with a lot of people who would never consider going to a rail museum. They don't know whether it's American or Chinese just that its not something they see everyday. Don't kid yourself saying it doesn't affect you if your not in the Kentucky area, it already has. If it didn't pass through your neck of the woods, whose to say someone didn't pass by it. You can't tell me some kid didn't see that engine somewhere along the way and begin a life-long love of trains. Sure this sounds really melodramatic but isn't always. Look at the best pictures posted here, they have a Wow factor to them. Why because we love trains. This engine won't matter squat to most people in twenty years but to someone it will be the story of how they first got into railroading. Thats how hobbies grow and history gets made. I wish RJC good luck and hope they put the engine to good use. I would certainly go see it, and put a bug in their ear about some of the available US Steam.
And if RJC paints that thing solid Red I'll personally drive to Nicholasville and blow it up.
Disclaimer: The above statement is a joke and does not imply actual violence or damage to persons or property.
You can never be too careful. ;)
I don't see how in any way shape or form the wok rocket affects me other than conversation. Some kid seeing it and becoming interested doesn't realy affect me in any tangible way. I in no way shape or form said that Corman should be held to a higher standard as far as buying things from overseas. I actually beleive Mr Corman has listened to many people that have an opinion... they own shares of his company, sit on boards, panels, and other forms of helping to steer and direct a company. He may be the face of the company to the public, but there is no way the company could exist without listening to and trusting other people's opinions. The only way they will ever know that people want something done is if it is expressed. I doubt that Corman has the power to read minds. He may not care, but the next railroad might consider the public sentiment when they buy a piece for pr. Lets face it all the talk has been a lot of free advertising, and it came from him getting something he wanted.
The history of that engine is distinctly Chinese. It's the history of their railroads, engineering, and people. . China has a very different culture and way of life( that's why these engines were in full service less than a decade ago). To fully understand and appreciate it you would have to see it in the place where it fits. I don't think you'd expect to see all the nuances of a painting in a dark ally. Taking it out of it's element is like listening to a sitcom in your car. Yeah you know it's a tv show and it's funny, but you lose so much. The main reason why we even remember Bill Purdy or Jack Taylor's names is because they are a part of that place and time.
Preference for one railroad over another one is kind of like the Ford vs Chevy debate. There's a lot that could cause those feelings. Maybe it's where you grew up, maybe it's a larger system, or even proximity to one railroad. I would think a lot of people are drawn to NS because of the size of the railroad and the system. Some people take it to a great extreme. I'd say most people don't realy "hate" other railroads, it's just a way to take a stab at others. CSX seems to always have some kind of accident so someone starts with the Crash Spill Explode or whatever. Some people joke about nascar drivers, or sports teams, and some are that way with railroads.