Train number question

[kdewald]

Let's say train 170 goes thru Georgetown KY at noon, is there a set amount of time before another 170 can come thru with out it being M70 (wich is the 170 extra)? Is it 12 hours, 24 hours, when ever train reaches its destination?    I'm just using 170 as an example btw. 

[Conductor]

One train number per date, say 170-18 and 170-19.  They may even be on the same district at the same time if one is late, in which case the dispatcher might holler at "170 of the 18th".

[nsrlink]

I'll say no, not really & here's why:
The 170 you saw may be yesterday's train, running 20+ hours late.
The next train behind 170 may be "second 170," (another 170) which is actually "on time."

What you typically don't hear on the radio is the full symbol:  Train -Line segment -Origin Date (170-T1-13).
Therefore, the first train you heard may have been 170-T1-13 (yesterday's late train)
followed by 170-T1-14 (today's train.)

I've seen / heard it happen more than once in my area where two "170s" were operating on the same district.  The dispatcher referred to the trains as "170 of the 13th" and "170 of the 14th,"  OR "170 at Palm" and "170 at Kings Mountain."

The "M" or second "section letter" is typically reserved for a second train originating on the same day as when a regularly scheduled train (or first section if you will,) has already run.  OR a train operating on a day when the "regularly scheduled" train is not operating at all.


Having said that:  Disclaimer:  NS is THE BEST at screwing up train symbols for no rhyme or reason.  I have no idea how a train can operate 300 miles as "train 194," arrive at Terminal X and depart as "M94 or 18M," run 200 more miles and go back to being after arriving & departing Terminal Y as "train 194."   ???   ???  Or how "they" can have coal trains & grain trains with the same symbol (number) operate among 3 or 4 different origin stations & destinations.  I have no idea how a "362" is profiled to operate as a M-F train, and it operates on Sa & Su as a "362" instead of a "W62."  
I will acknowledge that a lot of the decisions for the anomalies in train numbering /symbolizing are "behind the scenes" decisions by the chief dispatcher's office(s) used to conceal a late train, extra train, power move, or something like that to make the budget or their "report card" look good or have the train fit in to a "profile" that the computer system can "understand."  

[E.M. Bell]

I have heard the dispatcher holler at a train on the radio before, and tell them " 197, your now M97" which has to be rather confusing, but there has to be a reason I guess.

On the CNO&TP, when things are gummed up (pretty much all the time anymore) its not unusual to hear or shoot the same train number twice in a day...case in point, a month or so ago, we shot a 48A-12 at Cumberland falls, and 2 hours later a 48A-13 that was running behind them.

Almost any train you will see or hear that has a letter BEFORE the train number is a second section...

M for 100 series trains (M17 second section of 117)

I for 200 series trains (I29 for second second section of 229)

W for 300 series trains (W75 for a second section of 375)

Z for anything that starts with a 6 (Z0A would be a second section of 60A..I love that one)

and there are others for other series, but I dont recall them right off hand.

It always seemed to be that White and green flags was a much more simple approach to that problem...I doubt a lot of folks on here even remember that!

[NSMoWandS]

I remember Em... when the Dover(NJ) Drill HO2 last ran(it is now back) They ran it with white flags... as they were only going to pick up the last empties. And that was 2008!

[lwjabo]

Flags had nothing to do with the train number. It was a schedule and train 124 might run as first 160. I worked in AB on the Atlanta North till they finished CTC as it was called back in 1976. The numbers you are talking are what the crew is payed for. There is a difference between Schedule and train number.

[rrman70]

Having said that:  Disclaimer:  NS is THE BEST at screwing up train symbols for no rhyme or reason.  I have no idea how a train can operate 300 miles as "train 194," arrive at Terminal X and depart as "M94 or 18M," run 200 more miles and go back to being after arriving & departing Terminal Y as "train 194."      Or how "they" can have coal trains & grain trains with the same symbol (number) operate among 3 or 4 different origin stations & destinations.  I have no idea how a "362" is profiled to operate as a M-F train, and it operates on Sa & Su as a "362" instead of a "W62."  
I will acknowledge that a lot of the decisions for the anomalies in train numbering /symbolizing are "behind the scenes" decisions by the chief dispatcher's office(s) used to conceal a late train, extra train, power move, or something like that to make the budget or their "report card" look good or have the train fit in to a "profile" that the computer system can "understand."  

Thank you nsrlink.... Prime example is 290. 3 weeks ago chief dispatcher told us 290 was cut off/abolished. If they run the racks separate then it will run as I90 or I12. 290 ran on Saturday. If you look at the last sheet of wheel report there is no schedule. How many time I have heard "setting home first out, nothing on the line up, then a train done fell out the sky"

[Ptrainman]

How many time I have heard "setting home first out, nothing on the line up, then a train done fell out the sky"

That happens to the guys here all the time, espesially the pushers.


Paul

[nsrlink]

Thank you nsrlink.... Prime example is 290. 3 weeks ago chief dispatcher told us 290 was cut off/abolished. If they run the racks separate then it will run as I90 or I12. 290 ran on Saturday. If you look at the last sheet of wheel report there is no schedule. How many time I have heard "setting home first out, nothing on the line up, then a train done fell out the sky"

Exactly, don't I know it?? 
As one fellow famously asked (jokingly, but seriously) "How can something THAT BIG just fall out the sky??"   ???   ???  LOL

[Momo]

In the service plan, there are MANY coal and grain symbols that are valid symbols but don't have origin/destinations pairs assigned to them. This allows the Coal group (yes, they have authority to create a train) and dispatchers some flexibility to handle traffic on their lines. The Transportation Ops people can also create a train on the fly.

A extra cannot be created unless there is already a 'parent' train symbol already on the schedule and is a 'active' train, it isn't allowed. But that doesn't mean that the 'parent' train symbol can't become the 'extra', all that means that they annulled the 'parent' and the 'parent' is now the 'extra'.

Biggest thing to remember, any list of NS train symbols out and about should be considered a 'guideline' , not a hard and fast rule.