Bare-Table Intermodal Trains...

[Backyard]

   One early indication of how the economy is doing, is that intermodal freight trains, go bare-table in the beginning, and before the recovery, they begin to disappear...

Have you seen a bare table train lately?

Post your opinions, pics, heads-up here!

A bare table train, with a brand new CSX Gevo along for the ride, makes it's way eastbound near Thoreau, NM and past some of the great scenery along the Gallup Sub. BNSF Gallup Sub, Thoreau, New Mexico. March 16, 2008...

[billworsham]

I read in another forum that BNSF is now parking baretables on sidings in Montana and many other states due to the decrease in imports...

[Rockin Roller]

I saw a bunch of them parked along the Cleveland Line yesterday.

[ssw9662]

While the economy certainly affects how many cars are stored, sometimes the railroads simply run these baretable trains to balance out the number of well cars available at certain terminals. Most railroads do this sporadically, but from what I've seen BNSF seems to go about this practice quite frequently.

NS runs a weekly baretable train through here, symboled 23R. I believe it runs from South Carolina to North Jersey. Here's my only shot of it (and not a very good one at that.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=756762

[Michael Knight]

Bare-table trains are the result of the trade imbalance between the United States and Asian countries. Over the course of a recent five-year study, it was noted that the number of imported containers from Asia rose nearly 100 percent. If anything, the softening dollar should help to increase exports to cash laden Asian countries wishing to take advantage of the favorable exchange rate. Although, much of the exported freight probably won't be containerized.

[Backyard]

  There was a mild recession  back in the late eighties, early nineties, I watched the CSX Kearny, New Jersey to Tampa, Florida Trains 175 and 181, and return as Trains 176 and 184, run by my house. I was not working regularly as business was slow.

I began to notice the mile or more trains become shorter, then shorter again, then short with half the train bare-table, then maybe two sets of 5-unit cars, then just engines.

I learned the crews were guaranteed their jobs for a period of time, then Trains 181 and 184 were cut off, and for several months only one northbound and one southbound ran,  short, loaded, with a few bare-table cars.

It took about six months to get back to running 4 trains.

[Backyard]

  Going back, "pretty much empty," killed the CSX, as far as the RoadRailer concept goes.

What about Triple Crown Trains, those are dedicated markets...and are included under "Intermodal/Triple Crown Services."

How are they doing?...remembering less that 72 cars, require only one locomotive...that's a "Heads Up" for you!...

[Michael Knight]

Bare-table trains are the result of the trade imbalance between the United States and Asian countries. Over the course of a recent five-year study, it was noted that the number of imported containers from Asia rose nearly 100 percent. If anything, the softening dollar should help to increase exports to cash laden Asian countries wishing to take advantage of the favorable exchange rate.

Although, much of the exported freight probably won't be containerized.

export what?

We dont make anything here anymore that the rest of the world would want except niche electronics, some military items, and they certainly dont go by rail.

Alot of the cars/trucks made in mexico now come to us in ships, the return flow of containers usually are empty or have scrap cars or junkers to sell to mexicans

most of those trans-pacific container ships go back pretty much empty, its part of the cost of doing business

To answer your question, much of the exports are bulk, raw materials that are not containerized-- as I wrote initially.

As a case in point to illustrate growing number of containerized exports, there is a demand for American produce, which is shipped to the Asian countries in refrigerated containers.

As you said, bare-table trains are a cost of doing business when trade is imbalanced.

[Backyard]

  So, we have a great opin, "Bare-table trains, are a cost of doing business...."

I can accept this................................................................................?

[Michael Knight]

Domestic intermodel service (short-hauls) and international intermodel service (transcontinental) are too very different creatures.

Short-haul service, such as Triple Crowne, as well as, trailer-on-flat-car service (TOFC) up and down the east coast have smaller profit margins. Thus, it's very desirable and, in many cases, necessary to have traffic moving in both directions.

However, with transcontinental service, the trade imbalance has always necessitated that empty trains have to return west. Thus, the railroads make their profits on the inbound haul, and the return trip is merely to reposition equipment in order to do repeat the process.

[Chris7092]

Don't forget that, loaded or empty, railroads get paid for hauling trailers and container around.  Rates are slightly higher for moving loads, but it's a very small amount.  This is a primary reason why many railroads have moved out of owning their own trailers and containers.  Loaded ratio for most common carriers is an important matrix to consider; the higher the ratio, the better.  If they don't own the equipment, they don't need to be concerned with how to get it back to the headhaul market.

And from what I've heard, most TTX flats and wells are leased based on length of time, not miles traveled.  So if you don't have room for them, why not stick a block of them on the rear of an intermodal train.  Even in peak times, this "rolling storage" is quite common.  It keeps them out of yards and terminals where space is ever so precious.

Chris
K8CRQ

[billworsham]

No wonder I have commonly seen baretables (sometimes as many as 20 or so) at the end of intermodals....

[Michael Knight]

No wonder I have commonly seen baretables (sometimes as many as 20 or so) at the end of intermodals....

There is another reason empty intermodal cars run on the rear of trains; this reason being that empty intermodal cars often have a restriction on the amount of trailing tonnage, or tonnage that can follow empty equipment.

[cjr9703]

These "container-less" trains seem to make a somewhat regular appearance where I live. 

This one was heading westbound on the Sandusky district in Columbus, Ohio in August of 2007:

It's not possible to see the entire train, but if I recall there wasn't a single container on it.  Not sure of the train ID either.  I'm thinking 26J, or something with a letter in it.  Otherwise, I have no clue.


(It looks like I"m having image problems; stand by)

[cjr9703]

OK, I'm a bit rusty on attaching pictures, but here's the 'somewhat' baretable train I caught.  When I looked closely at it, I think there are some containers in the background, so it may not have been completely bare.  Oh well, I hope you enjoy and find it interesting nonetheless...

[Michael Knight]

Thanks Chuck! Don't be such a stranger here now! 

[cjr9703]

Thanks Chuck! Don't be such a stranger here now! 

Hey, my pleasure!  I'll try to hang here more often, but things are keeping me busy...

[Backyard]

  Hey good buddies, what's it like where your at...the news, has actually announced recession...anyone to comment, with Pictures?

[Backyard]

   Oops!

They just announced that we are officially in recession...since the forth quarter of last year...

Someone posted the other day about NS Train 224 being a hit or miss & Train 360 being canned altogether...

Word is that it's gonna get worse & stay down until about next summer. 

When it does you'll see less empties & more trains.

Right now there are no threads on reassignments or layoffs, but remember the predictions of a steady increase in rail traffic through 2020...freight train velocity has not been reduced but it for certain is not increasing.

Hang on to your hats...

[Backyard]

  Intermodal loads fall 7.9%

[billworsham]

Saw a whole bunch of baretables on both of the sidings at Harriman Jct., Harriman, TN. on the K&O side of Caney Creek today.  Never seen baretables parked there before.  Don't know how long they have been there.

[JCagle]

I havn't seen that many empties rolling through but I have noticed that the Intermodal trains are shorter through here. There are always a few empty spots. When I'm up on the Cleveland line later this month I can get a better idea of how bad things are. A good bit of the traffic through there are stacks during the day.

[Backyard]

  Thanks Mr. Cagle, whilst I'm not looking forward to hear of furlows, as I remember trains were doubled up & engines ran light before that happened...it seems like since Train 229 is a dedicated run it would only become shorter...

Mr. Worsham, are the parked cuts of cars you mentioned green?  There is a contractor around Oak Ridge that is moving demolition waste out of K-12 that has strings of green platform & spine cars parked in that area...if the track is dormant then that might be the case.

We now know the economy is down & you can only run empty cars so far before their destination becomes crowded.

But my "theory" goes like this...when the economy begins it's upturn, you guys will be the first to see it!

[billworsham]

The parked cuts of baretables were articulated well cars...they were their original colors with their original reporting marks.

We did see some demolition/cutting of cars under the 275/40 junction on the Coster line.  Several men were out there cutting parts off the cars with their torches.  There were about 5-7 railcars there on the little sidings beside the coster line, where they sometimes park the circus train.

[Backyard]

   The torches were probably just scavengers you know...the price of steel is about the same as aluminum now(lol).

People jump up & rebuild just about anywhere...or scrap-out.

Of course they could be just scrapping, now is the time to write-off...or storage.

It's the line-haul trains that handle freight so cheap that it takes volume to make a profit...that's why they'll come up running when the upturn takes hold.

We're talking pallets of empty 2-liter plastic Coke bottles in cases....toilet paper...etc.

The factor of just using trucking to make due is not a reality. Other than contract carriage, the truckers are hurting just as badly....& then of course at this point even contract carriers are subject to poverty...witness the rise in the number of used trucks on the side of the road.  Each & every used truck that looks worn & torn has a heartbreak story in it's past...