The "Rathole", A Surprising Statistic

[NSyorktown]

I just discovered the Cincinnati Southern website last night . . . . probably many of you know about it, and the host might even be a member of this forum (don't know).

http://www.trainweb.org/csrailway/Maps/Maps.htm

Anyway, the statistic in the third paragraph caught my eye.

I'm not questioning the # of bridges and tunnels versus the transcontinental railroad; I had just never seen that stat before.  It is cool, about the Rathole.

So, I'm searching on-line for the parallel numbers, and may or may not find them . . . . but it is interesting!

[swinstandley]

Jim Wrinn, TRAINS Magazine editor, in his column on page 4 of the July 2013 issue, lists his 10 favorite train watching spots.  Number 1 is NS's Rat Hole main line through Kentucky.  Number 10 is NS's loops near Asheville, N.C.

Stew

[NSyorktown]

From my post above, I've been researching the stats on the transcontinental railroad, and two websites confirm that it involved only 19 tunnels (15 on the western side, 4 on the eastern end).

So the 28 on the original Rathole line easily trumps the 19.

I'm still trying to confirm the # of bridges (but doubt I get very far on that one).

RDS

[E.M. Bell]

I am sure Butch (our resident expert on the OLD CNO&TP) will chime in and let us know about the number of bridges, but that number sounds about right for the old alignment. 

Case in point, the old bridge just South of Kings Mountain that was removed was #53 (I think..someone feel free to correct me there)...and that was only 140 miles or so South of Cinncy.  Given the old way of bridging over everything, I would say that number is pretty close. I guess back then, it was just easier to build a bridge than a fill..

Stew, I guess I must have rubbed off on Jim Wrinn...I have taken him out on the CNO&TP twice this year so far, and he said he really liked the scenery and the non-stop action (and he hadn't been out there but once or twice before, many years ago).  We are very lucky to live so close to one of the best districts on the entire NS if you ask me. Awesome photo locations at every turn, 60 + trains a day and some of the friendliest and most professional bunch of railroaders on the system...you just cant beat that!

[Ponce de Leon]

Butch would know for sure, but I think there were actually 140 bridges on the CS, not 105. There were 27 tunnels, not 28.

Here's a brief excerpt from the draft text for an article that will run in the December issue of Trains:

The Cincinnati Southern certainly wasn't the only railroad beset with an inordinate number of tunnels. Also heading south from Cincinnati and generally parallel with the CS, and just 25 to 30 air miles to the east, the Kentucky Central and the Louisville & Nashville (which acquired the KC in 1891) had to bore 20 tunnels through similar terrain in the 60 miles between Riverside(south of Winchester) and East Bernstadt, Kentucky. Completed several years later, the Carolina, Clinchfield & Ohio—a.k.a. the Clinchfield—featured 55 tunnels in the 217-mile stretch from Elkhorn City, Kentucky to Marion, North Carolina. And out west, David Moffat's Denver, Northwestern & Pacific (later part of the D&RGW) blasted out an astounding 29 tunnels in the 18 miles between Coal Creek and Rollinsville, Colorado, up the Front Range of the Rockies (and, on a sustained 2 percent grade). Today, of course, this line is still a busy corridor for the Union Pacific.

[NSyorktown]

Yep, 27 tunnels, not 28 (as is noted on the original URL in my first post above).  Didn't catch that!

As per bridges, the "South to Danville" page on the Railroads of Cincinnati sites 105 bridges, so that seems consistent.

http://www.cincyrails.com/

[Ponce de Leon]

Yep, 27 tunnels, not 28 (as is noted on the original URL in my first post above).  Didn't catch that!

As per bridges, the "South to Danville" page on the Railroads of Cincinnati sites 105 bridges, so that seems consistent.

http://www.cincyrails.com/

Well...I'm not so sure that's correct. Bridges on the CS are numbered from north to south, and bridge number 140 was located at Boyce (about 1900 or so).

[butch]

The website just ate my very detailed, educational, and entertaining reponse to this so now I'm switching to quick and dirty.

27 tunnels is correct.  140 bridges is correct.  Bridge 53 was probably what is now a fill at Dry Branch Creek between B52 at Pittman Creek and B54 which was over the Cumberland River between T4 and Burnside.  The bridge that was by-passed by a fill south of Kings Mountian was B50.  

Interesting bridge notes; from B12 over the L&N LCL [now CSX] above Walton the B13 over Eagle Creek at Sadieville, the CNO&TP goes 36 miles ridge running without crossing a creek.  Also, the three trestles coming up Erlanger Hill from Ludow are B8, 9, & 10.  But in 1906, MP 0 was at Ludlow so that suggests the earlier orginal profile from Cincinnati was changed, maybe with the tranistion from Cincinnati Southern to CNO&TP???  [Erik Landrum, where are you?]  And of course it's now changed back with Ludlow at about MP 3.

And if you still want to talk bridges, where is/was the bridge in this postcard?

[Ponce de Leon]

And if you still want to talk bridges, where is/was the bridge in this postcard?

My best guess is bridge 67, between Cumberland Falls and Flat Rock. I have that shot somewhere in my collection of stuff as well.

[butch]

Maybe Ron.  This picture is of the old concrete bases on the east side of the road.  There is a little creek along the road and the curvature looks about right looking south.  It is practically on the state line.  

[kbarnett]

While you are on the subject of bridges, what were the bridge numbers where the fill is now at Bridge Fork pond and the yard at Stearns? Were they 68 and 69 or were there more bridges between Tucker Holler(bridge 67) and Whitley. I can only think of a few places where there might have been bridges on the original alignment between Flat Rock and Whitley but I have not seen any evidence unless they filled it with the bridges intact.

[butch]

Kelly, there is a bridge marked at Bridge Fork, but it isn't labeled.  I don't see anything at Stearns as of 1906, but a lot of the smaller bridges seem to have been filled in early on.

[kbarnett]

You can still see the footers and abutments for both bridges. They are on the east side of the present double track. You have to walk down the tracks to get to the Bridge Fork site. The one at Stearns crosses the hollow where the intermediate signal is south of the station site. There used to be a logging/signal maintainer road that would get you into the site.