Signals?

[TM3358]

The area that i live has the tri lite system  with a spot light indicator on the bottom on certian signals which is always red anytime i see them  what is the purpose  of these. Also anytime i go to maryville i cross a csx line which has the u p style signals the thing is its always dark or red are these set up to be in use when trains are in the area?

[NS145]

I assume that you mean an additional signal head mounted below one or two others on a signal mast?  There are at least 2 reasons why NS uses an additional single aspect red bottom signal head: 

1) The presence or absence of the additional lower signal head can modify the signal indication being conveyed to an approaching train.  For example in ex-N&W territory, a red over yellow over red indicates "Diverging Approach", whereas a red over yellow indicates "Restricting".   

2) These single aspect bottom signal heads are only used on home signals whose most restrictive indication is "Stop".  Since home signals protect railroad crossings, junctions, the ends of passing sidings, and other types of interlockings, the risks associated with a train accidently passing the signal are quite high.  There is a slight possibility that if only one signal head was used and the red bulb was burned out that an engineer may misjudge his/her location relative to the signal and create the possiblility of a collision.  With at least 2, and sometimes 3, signal heads all displaying red lamps, the possibility of this happening is greatly diminished.


As for your CSX signal question:  Yes, some signal systems are setup to only "turn on" when a train is in close proximity.  The idea here is to increase bulb life.  In the old days before commerical AC power, this type of system also saved battery power used to operate the signals.  These are referred to as "approach lit" signals.  In some cases the home signals burn continuously and intermediate signals (the ones with number plates) are approach lit, or all signals can be  approach lit.  Just depends on how the signal department wants to set things up.

Given all this info, you can use the signals to your advantage when you are out railfanning.  If you are in approach lit territory, a green signal means a train will be showing up very shortly.   A red signal could indicate that a train has just passed by the signal or that a train is approaching from the opposite direction.  In territory where the signals burn continuously, a green intermediate signal  may mean nothing, other than the track is "clear".  In non-approach lit territory home signals are the ones that you want to observe if you are tracking down trains.  If these signals display anything other than "all red" something is coming your way.  You can still use the intermediates, but you have to be much more knowledgeable on how CTC/ABS signal systems work to figure out what's going on, if anything. 

[TM3358]

Thanks for the info I had wandered about it  and never thought to ask any of the guys on ns i knew but again thanks

[Bellevue Kid]

speaking of signals, what does it mean when a signal light is blinking?
I've seen green and yellow blinking a lot of times, and even red once or twice.

[GP30Rider]

On Southern, I believe that only the yellow aspect could blink.  Approach slow instead of Approach or Diverging Route Approach Slow instead of Diverging Route Approach.  Speed through the turnout would be less than normal track speed not exceeding 15mph. 

[TB4JY]

On Southern, I believe that only the yellow aspect could blink.  Approach slow instead of Approach or Diverging Route Approach Slow instead of Diverging Route Approach.  Speed through the turnout would be less than normal track speed not exceeding 15mph. 

Approach Slow?   Not on my Southern! ;D

Con-Rail has a few different flashing signals.  Approach Limited (Yellow over Flashing  Green), Limited Clear (Red over flashing Green or just Flashing Green), Advance Approach (Flashing Yellow), Medium Clear (Green over Flashing Red), Medium Approach (Red over Flashing Yellow or Yellow over Flashing Red) and Slow Approach (Two reds over Flashing Yellow or dwarf Flashing Yellow).

Them N&W boys have Diverging Approach Diverging (Red over Flashing Yellow over Red or Lunar over Flashing Yellow) and Slow Approach (Just Flashing Yellow).

But on Southern............

We only have Approach Restricted (Flashing Yellow) and Diverging Approach Restricted (Red over Flashing Yellow).

[GP30Rider]

In the old days, it was referred to as Approach Slow.

[NS145]

I received a PM about my earlier post where I referred to my example as being "ex-N&W".  I should have mentioned that it was ex-N&W in former Wabash/NKP territory.  The original N&W, of course, used position light signals with different aspects for "Diverging Approach" and "Restricting".  However, I did find that even with position lights the N&W added a small lower red marker light for signals whose most restrictive indication was "Stop".  So the "extra signal head rule" does follow across all ex-N&W territories (at least as far as I can tell; perhaps some of you "real" N&W guys can straighten me out on this point).

Flashing signals are pretty cool, especially for limited speed signalling.  They are an ingenious way to allow a signal to display more aspects than would normally be possible.  They definately will grab your attention!       

[etalcos]

I thought Nickle Plate & Wabash was the N&W????????????

[NS145]

The single red light below the two red lights (side by side) on N&W position lights indicated "Stop and Stay"; don't move the engine, or train, for any reason.... period! The only time I know of an official telling an engineer to proceed thought a Stop and Stay signal resulted in the engineer and fireman (and the REF) bailing off the engine (an old steam switcher -- ex-C&O S1) just before she and the first 4 hoppers when into 40 ft of water on the west in of Bridge 5 in Norfolk. Only injuries were some bruises and cuts BUT, I have no idea if the REF kept his job!

In CTC territory couldn't a dispatcher give  a  train permission to pass a "Stop and Stay" signal if conditons warranted it?  Out here on the old Wabash we have signalled sidings and if a crew needs to run around their train, the dispatcher has to give them permission to pass the signal displaying stop indisation to enter the passing siding on the other end to couple up to their train.   A "Stop and Stay" signal doesn't mean that it can never be passed, but only after the train crew has first contacted the proper authority (operator, dispatcher, etc.) and obtained their permission to do so.  The rules assume that the proper authority knows what in the hell is going on.  In your example he obviously didn't!   

[Michael Knight]

Stop and stay signals, as you call them, are referred to as absolute signals. Stop and proceed signals, which can often be identified by the presence of a milepost number, are called intermediate signals. However, even absolute signals can display a stop and proceed, or restricting indication. In order to pass an absolute signal, a train crew must have permission from the operator in control of the signal and must follow any rules and timetable or bulletin instructions that apply. Permission is not usually required to pass a restricting signal, however.

[TB4JY]

Southern... Southern, what's a Southern?   : ;D

That would be our better half. ;D

[TB4JY]

Southern... Southern, what's a Southern?   : ;D

That would be our better half. ;D

;D Well.... that would be a matter of opinion I suppose but given the way the two roads were run I'd have to pick the NW to work for. If I'm right SOU had system seniority (could be wrong??) whereas N&W stayed with road and yard, better for the individual worker, again IMHO.  I know that N&W use to look out after it's own and if what I've been told is correct SOU was a bit more cutthroat (for lack of a better term) towards it's employees. Don't get all fired up here, that's just the rumor that use to go around with the employees. As far as ones favorite, I guess it all comes down to loyalty; I worked for NW so have to keep my allegiance there. Being in engine service I found myself working with men who were more jovial than most ground crew but those were different days as compared to today?s railroading. Personally I think we had it better some years ago but then I guess that?s a personal choice too. 

Having said the above, if one wants to add fuel to the fire and is a true NS steam excursion fan you have to remember it was the Southern guys (they're the ones mostly in charge of NS now) that effectively scrapped the steam program.  This isn't meant to start of war of words about the N&W and SOU; it's just the way it is.

That's funny!  I heard the same thing about N&W.  As far as the steam program.....  Well, I think it would be nice to have it back....  But I really don't care one way or the other.  It's just like the F units.  They only let certain people drive them, so to heck with'em.