Looking for historical photos and documents of the Rathole.

[NS_Milepost_279.2]

I have googled and googled and simply can not uncover hardly any shots of the CNO&TP from its pre-1963 days. I have been looking for a gold mine and have not found it. Can anyone link me up some scans, websites even .pdf's of the CNO&TP? Maps, photos, timetables, etc very appreciated. I've become a tunnel junkie (thanks Butch  ), have always loved bridges and have become fascinated with the CNO&TP in general. Post '63 pics seem to be abundant. Those of trains popping out of now abandoned tunnels? Not so much...

If you have anything that fits what I have described, I would greatly appreciate being able to see it!

-Alex

[NSyorktown]

I model the CNO&TP in HO scale, so have done a great deal of research on the Rathole line.  Among the most interesting resources are the older issues of TIES magazine, the former Southern Railway publication.

Here is a link to almost 400 past issues: http://southern.railfan.net/

Obviously you seem to be interested in the 1940s, 1950s, and then up to 1963.  Browse through the older editions, many of which have the articles and photographs linked in HTML. Simply click on "Ties", then the decade, and finally the issue.  Full articles are hyperlinked there.

Note: The Photo Archive of 3000+ pics is excellent as well, but features mostly locomotives and rolling stock (versus locations along the Rathole line).  HAPPY READING!

[butch]

Alex,

Tom Daspit's Southern Railfan site is the best archive I have found.  I spent a day last fall at the SRHA archives and found a few things, but then again you could spend a week in Kennesaw and not see everything.  Most of what I've collected has been one-off finds from ebay or contacts.

[Ponce de Leon]

I have googled and googled and simply can not uncover hardly any shots of the CNO&TP from its pre-1963 days. I have been looking for a gold mine and have not found it. Can anyone link me up some scans, websites even .pdf's of the CNO&TP? Maps, photos, timetables, etc very appreciated. I've become a tunnel junkie (thanks Butch  ), have always loved bridges and have become fascinated with the CNO&TP in general. Post '63 pics seem to be abundant. Those of trains popping out of now abandoned tunnels? Not so much...

If you have anything that fits what I have described, I would greatly appreciate being able to see it!

-Alex

Alex,
This might be a bit premature, but I think you'll want to purchase a copy of the July 2013 issue of Trains Magazine. For months now, I've been working closely with Butch, EM, Chad Harpole and some others whose names you probably wouldn't recognize. The whole subject of the pre-'63 Cincinnati Southern is the focus of a major article (with detailed maps--Wilmore to Emory Gap). Butch clearly has been the "tunnel guy" in this project; EM has supplied more recent photos (and double checked my draft text, maps and other support items); and Chad has been terrific in scanning images from the collection of the late Flem Smith of Georgetown. Flem was one of the preeminent authorities on the steam-era CNO&TP. I would guess that upwards of 200 images of abandoned tunnels, trains of all eras, maps and other ephemera have been uploaded to Kalmbach for this project. The text (working title: "The Real Rat Hole") has been accepted by the publisher, the contract is signed, and I got a nice check for the work done so far. I plan on being in Wisconsin in April with Jim Wrinn, the magazine's editor, to go through the Kalmbach photo files to see if we turn up anything else that's better.

I wish I could share some of this with you and other JREBers, but now that the text is sold to a publisher, I no longer own the rights (That's strange to some people, but once you sell a story to a magazine or book publisher, you relinquish ownership of your own words! Photos, however, are different. Magazines merely acquire one-time rights, so the images remain the property of the photographer.). Also, I don't want to preempt the magazine.

I don't know how much of this will appear in the magazine, because there was a lot of stuff to cover in the span of an article (vs. a book). A major article will run ten pages, for example, so if this one runs to 12 or hopefully more, that's a LOT! As with anything of this nature, I went through many edits to cut the thing down to size. Yes, a lot of cool information had to be left on the "cutting room floor." Of all those images I mentioned, I would guess that no more than 15 to 20 would be used. That's the nature of the business----edit, edit, edit, edit....and then edit some more!

So, stay tuned, and by late May (the time the July issue will actually be available) you'll hopefully be happy with what you see.

Ron

[Ponce de Leon]

I don't think there's anything wrong with sharing just ONE photo from those submitted for the article. Here's southbound passenger local number 16---with a Ps-4 for power---crossing the old Cumberland River Bridge at Burnside (Bridge 54) and approaching the south portal of Tunnel 4. This rather intriguing shot was taken in the late '30s, we think, and probably by Tom Acree. I secured this one from the collection of Charlie Castner. Mr. Acree was a gutsy kind of guy to take refuge in the tight tunnel while a train was bearing down on him! Notice the engine's bell is ringing. This bridge was replaced, of course, by the more familiar double track span just upstream and to the left of this location (and higher, of course). Tunnel 4 is still there, but it's under the surface of Lake Cumberland most of the time.

[Southern6482]

Alex, as Ron mentioned I'm in the middle of quite the undertaking on scanning in the collection of the late Flem Smith and John Farris.  I'm HOPING to be done by the end of February but it's been quite the undertaking and much much larger than I had originally anticpiated.

What Ron is working on is quite the project and I cannot WAIT to see the results.  Now if only we can chain him to a desk and lock him in a room with a laptop so he can churn out a book on the CNO&TP from Cincy to Chattanooga. It would be an absolute masterpiece. I might start a Facebook Page "Force Ron Flanary to write a book on the CNO&TP" because we all know Facebook carries the weight of the world these days  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[butch]

Amen to the book!

[NS_Milepost_279.2]

Wow sounds like some good stuff in the works. Sign me up immediately to view those slides and stuff. I agree, just from what I have read here, it sounds like Ron needs to write a book!

Looking forward to that article, I'll keep a lookout for it.

Good information!

-Alex

[Ponce de Leon]

Oops....Butch just contacted me off-list about the visibility of old Tunnel 4. It's NOT under water....but it is pretty much hidden by foliage and brush much of the time (the south portal that is). When the water is down a bit, the north abutment of old Bridge 54 can be seen. Butch sent a shot taken from a boat. My bad!

I'll think about the book. Actually, it might be marketable to a publisher. I may cast around to see if there's any interest.

[E.M. Bell]

A BOOK??? Good lord man, the article has taken almost a year. If your going to write a book, you best get cracking...none of us are getting any younger  ;D

[kbarnett]

Ron, while researching your article for the tunnels, did you see a picture of a locomotive either entering or exiting a tunnel with the Wimbledon smoke duct engaged? I saw a pic somewhere and now cannot remember where. The pic was an overhead shot and the engineer had not disengaged the duct, I want to say it was at Burnside and a Doyle Inman photo, but I cannot remember.

[Ponce de Leon]

A BOOK??? Good lord man, the article has taken almost a year. If your going to write a book, you best get cracking...none of us are getting any younger  ;D

A book is just more words. Seriously---to do the subject justice, it would indeed take a lot more research before you even began to write text.

[Ponce de Leon]

Ron, while researching your article for the tunnels, did you see a picture of a locomotive either entering or exiting a tunnel with the Wimbledon smoke duct engaged? I saw a pic somewhere and now cannot remember where. The pic was an overhead shot and the engineer had not disengaged the duct, I want to say it was at Burnside and a Doyle Inman photo, but I cannot remember.

I have not seen such a photo--but it's not for the lack of looking. One of the reasons I'll be going to Wisconsin to Kalmbach's library is to research many of Doyle Inman's photos. I have a hunch some of those prints are there. He and David Noble co-authored a nice photo feature on the CNO&TP in the July 1951 issue of Trains. However, a shot such as you describe was not included in that feature.