Concrete ties Vs. Wooden ties

[steveiez]

Out west where there is more barren land than forrest, concrete becomes more economical. Concrete is getting stronger everyday with new additives. Even homes are now being built with concrete, and you would never be able too tell the difference.

With all this anti foresting stuff going, concrete will become more popular.

[chipallen16]

Yay, a response to a 6-month old thread. Who said anything about deforestation...? I'm pretty sure the trees we have aren't going away...

-Chip

[rhotond]

NS does have a significant length of concrete ties on the Mon line (south side pgh) but this was put in by Conrail.  No problems that I know of--- this line handles all of the loaded coal out of the mon valley and all ttx double stacks to and from the east coast.

NS also installed (ie  Kiski Jct railroad-- ne Rosebud mining) about 7 miles of steel ties on the line to logansport pa (old buffalo line) northeast of pgh in the last two years.  Don't think that NS had any real say in this however.

r

[steveiez]

Anyone know how many yards of concrete does a heavy duty have?

[NSMoWandS]

Depending on the type of heavy haul tie, density of the concrete and amount of steel renforcement... anywhere from .5-2 yds and weigh 500-900lbs. Dan

[Ponce de Leon]

You mean like this?

I worked with a track supervisor that would call this a "didapper's nest" (pumping mud on both sides).

[NSMoWandS]

You mean like this?

I worked with a track supervisor that would call this a "didapper's nest" (pumping mud on both sides).

It could pass for one of their nests! LOL! Dan

[E.M. Bell]

The picture over on the 1st page of this thread is pretty typical of CSX trackage I have seen in a LOT of place, wood or concrete. The sad fact is, that no matter what kind of tie you use, it wont be around very long without maintaining the roadbed itself. Water leads to mud, mud leads to pumpers, and there go your ties.

There was a Southern man that was once quoted as saying the secret to success in railroading was Drainage..Drainage, and then...Drainage! You have to have something solid to put those ties on, otherwise you might as well just use toothpicks!

You have to add new rock, tamp, run a ballast cleaner and clean your ditches often...if you dont do that, your asking for trouble. That is the place NS seems to get it right more often or not, although I can think of a few spots around here where the "mud volcanoes" are a sight to behold in wet weather. Watch a 60 mph stack track run over a soft spot and the mud and water is shooting 5 foot high out of those volcanoes!

[NSMoWandS]

The picture over on the 1st page of this thread is pretty typical of CSX trackage I have seen in a LOT of place, wood or concrete. The sad fact is, that no matter what kind of tie you use, it wont be around very long without maintaining the roadbed itself. Water leads to mud, mud leads to pumpers, and there go your ties.

There was a Southern man that was once quoted as saying the secret to success in railroading was Drainage..Drainage, and then...Drainage! You have to have something solid to put those ties on, otherwise you might as well just use toothpicks!

You have to add new rock, tamp, run a ballast cleaner and clean your ditches often...if you dont do that, your asking for trouble. That is the place NS seems to get it right more often or not, although I can think of a few spots around here where the "mud volcanoes" are a sight to behold in wet weather. Watch a 60 mph stack track run over a soft spot and the mud and water is shooting 5 foot high out of those volcanoes!

Your 100% correct EM! It's ALL about drainage! Water is the most destructive force to the roadbed. And, I will not say what RR that pic is from... but, it wasn't CSX... this time.  Dan

[steveiez]

Does anyone have an idea of how much concrete is in one heavy duty tie?

[steveiez]

Concrete has become has high-tech as anything else gas become. Simply not a mixture of sand, gravel cement and water anymore, it now uses fiber mesh, different degrees of air entrainment, rebar and special mixes.

Today's concrete, as we all know is used in bridges, tunnels and other high stress applications.

I think with forestry becoming an issue with tree huggers, concrete ties are a good substitute.

[WillD]

think with forestry becoming an issue with tree huggers, concrete ties are a good substitute.

Yet the European tree huggers want to cut down American forests for "renewable energy" power plants.

Concrete has become a science.  I think they will eventually come up with concrete ties that work.

[steveiez]

Yay, a response to a 6-month old thread. Who said anything about deforestation...? I'm pretty sure the trees we have aren't going away...

-Chip

No, trees won't go away, it is the huggers who will make it an issue for the stopping of logging.

[steveiez]

I asked a MOW  man today if N/S was going to use concrete ties. He said no, due to them not being able to withstand heavy loads.

Amtrak and light rail are using them with good results, mainly because they are lighter consists.