The Lexington Group

[Ponce de Leon]

A little late on this---but attached are a few images from the Thursday (November 10th) Lexington Group event at Knoxville. I was able to ride one of the two trains on the G&O, but none of the other events. I did have an invitation to ride the F-unit trip to Asheville on Saturday, and the steam run to Maryville and back on Sunday, but my wife was ailing and I had to stay home to assist her. From talking to some friends who rode both trips, there wasn't any vestibule photography, and thus few opportunities to take photos. I'm sure the rides were neat, though. I did see some terrific shots of the F-units on the trip, though----so my preference (had I been able to come) would have likely been to chase.

[Michael Knight]

Outstanding images, Ron! This topic brings up a good question: who is the Lexington Group and what is their mission?

I understand the group to be one that focuses on railroad history, but other than that, I do not have many details.

Perhaps you can fill us in

[Ponce de Leon]

The Lexington Group was founded in the early '40s. It's primarily a group made up of the more "serious" transportation historians, vs. most day to day railfans (That does not suggest there aren't many "railfans" in the group---because there are.). They place a great deal of importance on being published, particular in more a more scholarly fashion. I always called it the "tweed coat" group.

I was a member for several years (you have to be recommended by a sitting member), but I dropped out because I could never attend the conventions. They have some dynamite conventions, too, because so many of their members are "connected" within the industry. I did not rejoin for this particular convention, however----so I was there by invitations from both G&O and NS. I did attend a few of the sessions, and enjoyed seeing many old friends (emphasis on "old").

To be downright honest---many in the Lexington Group can be a bit aloof and snobby to most folks. That's not my cup of tea. Also, there are many wonderful people who are members, so I don't mean to make this a sweeping and generalized indictment. You have a number of "academics" as members, so these are not the guys you'll find trackside with a scanner, a high end digital camera with at least five telephoto lens and a four wheel drive vehicle.

In all honesty, I feel a closer kinship to the standard meat and potato railfans----because that's what I've always been.

[Badhorse79]

Yeah my friend ken hanks told me about these guys he said they were a complete 360 compared to the Kentucky mafia but I never seen or really heard much about them thats neat you mentioned them I was just remenering that conversation that was the day we were chasing 611 last cincy to danvilke run we were at Georgetown during the photo run? ?? Oh sorry nice shot there Eon but you never seize to fail with your outstanding work sir

[GP30Rider]

I only have one impression since I just joined a few months ago and the Knoxville Convention was my first.  I was left with the impression that many who are in the group are people who either work in the railroad industry or who as Ron pointed out are people who are involved in writing or publishing material on the railroad industry and it's history. The presentations were a mix of historical railroad subjects as well as modern day subjects.  One of the most interesting presentations came from John Friedman who is Vice President - Strategic Planning for Norfolk Southern.  His presentation looked at the Southern Railway from about merger time to today in terms of traffic.  His question and answer session was most interesting.  Wick Moorman also spoke at the event on Friday afternoon.  Perhaps the best idea of who is involved in the Lexington Group can be drawn from Wick's question and answer session.  Not one person in the room asked a single question about 21st Century Steam.  All the questions addressed to him were strictly business.

[Ponce de Leon]

Perhaps the best idea of who is involved in the Lexington Group can be drawn from Wick's question and answer session.  Not one person in the room asked a single question about 21st Century Steam.  All the questions addressed to him were strictly business.

That defines this group perfectly. It's not a group of "foamers" at all.

I haven't rejoined, but I may. Now that I'm retired (and having attended at least a portion of one), perhaps I can attend more of their conventions. If anything, it's fascinating.

[GP30Rider]

Yep........and many of the historians in the room are people that have invested many of their own dollars in preservation.  Bennett Levin and Pete Claussen are two examples.  Don Phillips who is a former writer on the Washington Post is a member.  There were a few folks there from Trains Magazine.  Many folks who work in the shortline railroad industry are involved.  As far as snobby goes, I am sure there are some, but I did not really encounter those folks.  I think the group represents something that is happening in the railroad industry right now and that is a more positive attitude toward those who work in the industry who are also railfans.   

[Ponce de Leon]

As far as snobby goes, I am sure there are some, but I did not really encounter those folks.  I think the group represents something that is happening in the railroad industry right now and that is a more positive attitude toward those who work in the industry who are also railfans.   

Yes...and I think "snobby" was an unfair characterization. Poor word choice on my part.

I saw Paul Reistrup in the crowd----plus Jim Wrinn, Rob McGonigal (Classic Trains), Dave Ingles and many other Kalmbach guys. Yes, Don Phillips was there, and also Victor Hand. These were just some of the guys I spoke with (didn't speak to Reistrup, because I didn't know him----but wish I had).

Reistrup, by the way, is an ex-Amtrak president---but among the "old heads" is better known for his efforts to revitalize passenger service on the B&O and C&O during the '60s.

[GP30Rider]

And I would be a foamer myself if there were still SD-45's and E-8's  out there on the mainline.....cameras, scanners, and all.  For me, there is not anything in modern railroading to foam about.

[Michael Knight]

Thanks, gentlemen, for an informative reply and interesting discussion.

Being more involved in watching the overall business picture of the Class I's (and of motor carriers) describes me more than the trackside enthusiast. Traffic flows, ironically, have always been one of my greatest interests. For example, looking at a passing merchandise train, I typically break the train apart (in my mind) by blockings, and then identify (or make a good guesstimate) of where the lading originated and where its destined to. Obviously, sometimes the origin and destination pairs are know for regular moves but other times they are not, such as in the case of spot moves. Few realize not only what's being carried but also the complexity of each movement--each car moving from its origin to destination represents part of the supply chain for a given product, a product either to be produced later--as in the case of a raw material or commodity for further processing-- or to be distributed for sale to the end user--as in the case of a finished good. I realize this type of "railfanning" is not for everyone, however; it comes naturally for me since I'm in the transportation and logistics field.


There was a time when I did also find the sights and sounds of railroading worthy of being checked out, but given that the modern era is upon us, there's not as much of interest anymore, in my opinion. However, business wise, there is a lot going on. Many factors from both the macro- and micro environments are affecting the railroad industry. Government regulation, emissions restrictions, fuel prices, etc. have all changed the game of the transportation industry, and inexperienced management, droves of retirements on the agreement side, as well as an emphasis of drastic costs reductions without regard to service levels have also reared their heads internally. At least all this action gives me something to read and analyze everyday!

And I would be a foamer myself if there were still SD-45's and E-8's  out there on the mainline.....cameras, scanners, and all.  For me, there is not anything in modern railroading to foam about.

GP30Rider, I couldn't have said it better myself!

Again, thanks for the great discussion!

Speaking of academics involved in the Lexington Group, does anyone know if UT is represented?

[GP30Rider]

Yes...There is at least one professor who is an active member and the group has several UT graduates including myself. 

[Ponce de Leon]

I saw David Clarke there...plus a number of UT transportation grads from the past. I also saw a number of ex-Southern management trainees I knew from 40 years ago (some of whom were grads from the UT program). Some worked for the railroad for their whole career, but others (like me) bailed out at various levels many years ago.

Very nice description of understanding the industry today...and the variety and excitement of the "equipment" many years ago. Overall, the industry has never been at such a high level of economic health. However, I find little excitement in the power on today's trains. I also bemoan the lack of variety in all aspects of train watching and photography.

We may not be alone, however. Consider the increasing number of "photo charters" with vintage steam and diesel. A younger generation of photographers yearn to experience and photograph things they never saw. I think that's an interesting trend---although I wonder what I would do to participate in one of these things only to come home with the same basic images that 40 or 50 other photographers had captured. What do you do with the images, besides look at 'em yourself?

[GP30Rider]

Hence the reason that I get my hands dirty and tinker on these old cars and locomotives.  Simply taking pictures of it did not satisfy me as a teenager and I doubt that it ever will. 

[csx6900]

Hence the reason that I get my hands dirty and tinker on these old cars and locomotives.  Simply taking pictures of it did not satisfy me as a teenager and I doubt that it ever will.  

Well, I never was one for getting my hands dirty; I'm more of a computer nerd.  I enjoy working with trains, but I am not mechanically inclined.  But like you guys have pointed out, there is not a lot of satisfaction in just taking pictures or video of trains so that you can look at them yourself.  I like posting them to the internet so that others can enjoy them, and that gives me satisfaction.  I also find the operational and logistical aspects of railroading fascinating.  Schedules, timetables, work orders, and power cycles are all extremely interesting aspects of the railroad to me.

I think that railroading is becoming more and more uniform as far as locomotives and that sort of technology are concerned.  There are basically two types of new road locomotives available to railroads now: GE's Evolution Series and EMD's SD70ACe's.  Of course, there are several smaller builders that offer alternatives, but pretty much everything these days is GE or EMD.  Compared to the 50's or 60's, when there were dozens of options available to the railroads (RS-series, U-boats, GP's, SD's, and many others that don't come to mind at the moment), today's railroads are fairly bland.  However, with the ECO-wave on the horizon and an aging GP-series fleet on just about every Class 1 railroad, I think that things will get more colorful eventually.  Just think about how the railroads looked during the westward expansion in the 19th century: A 4-4-0 American-type locomotive on just about every train.  I think that the railroads (just like any other industry) go through phases.

-Evan

[Michael Knight]

I saw David Clarke there...plus a number of UT transportation grads from the past. I also saw a number of ex-Southern management trainees I knew from 40 years ago (some of whom were grads from the UT program). Some worked for the railroad for their whole career, but others (like me) bailed out at various levels many years ago.

Given UT's status in the industry, I expected that there would be several associated with UT there.

Speaking of UT, Lloyd Rinehart, a current professor at UT, is perhaps one of the few left who educates his students on topics such as the failure of the Penn Central and subsequent creation of Conrail, the Staggers Act, and other important points in railroad history--although the current generation of students could care less. Sadly, few others stress the fundamentals of transportation in UT's logistics studies today; cost cutting, outsourcing, lean, and operations management science have taken the spotlight in the logistics program there, and much of the material is more suited for manufacturing and assembly applications rather than transportation strategy or management. The Center for Transportation Research, on the other hand, does much for the transportation field, but it is a totally separate unit of the university and is not directly affiliated with the logistics program--which is known formally as the Marketing & Logistics Department.

Very nice description of understanding the industry today...and the variety and excitement of the "equipment" many years ago. Overall, the industry has never been at such a high level of economic health. However, I find little excitement in the power on today's trains. I also bemoan the lack of variety in all aspects of train watching and photography.

We may not be alone, however. Consider the increasing number of "photo charters" with vintage steam and diesel. A younger generation of photographers yearn to experience and photograph things they never saw. I think that's an interesting trend---although I wonder what I would do to participate in one of these things only to come home with the same basic images that 40 or 50 other photographers had captured. What do you do with the images, besides look at 'em yourself?

Same here! Which train had new power or engines with the "greatest and latest" paint schemes do little to excite me. (Although, I must admit, I do enjoy seeing hotshots on CSX still being led by Dash 8 power or the '42 earlier this month led by an 8100-series SD40-2. I'm nostalgic for those days of the Dash 8s and early-ACs. CSX certainly did much to advance the AC evolution back in the early 1990s, but that's a topic for somewhere else I suppose.)

Although many of the steam festivities have been in my own backyard, I have not recorded any images. Since so many others not only photographed but also videotaped the action, I find sitting back and enjoying the show at my desk to be a better option. I too question the value of images that are a dime a dozen, whether taken on a charter, at a special event, or on a random day trackside.

The digital camera age, while it certainly has its good points, has created a new phenomenon where pictures from this era are so common that I wonder if they will be valued later on.

[mbgphoto79]

There was a time when I did also find the sights and sounds of railroading worthy of being checked out, but given that the modern era is upon us, there's not as much of interest anymore, in my opinion.

I, too long for the days of my youth again of the early 90's when the NS still ran 4 axle units long hood forward on a regular basis.  Today's power and uniform/graffiti marred rolling stock isn't nearly the magnet that brings me trackside as it was when I was aiming my Nikon F at the rails. 

I am usually a lone ranger when I do railfan, very seldom do I hang out with others or go to railroad events.  Saturday that changed when I met up with several young and very enthusiastic railfans at Pomona Yard here in Greensboro.  Almost every train that blasted by us had a dash9 on the point but that made no difference to them.  The fact that the trains were there at all and that they spoke the same language was the driving force.  The experience left me excited for the world of railfanning and I realized it IS still exciting to be trackside, especially when you can share the simple joy of it with others. 

[Michael Knight]

I, too long for the days of my youth again of the early 90's when the NS still ran 4 axle units long hood forward on a regular basis.  Today's power and uniform/graffiti marred rolling stock isn't nearly the magnet that brings me trackside as it was when I was aiming my Nikon F at the rails. 

Excellent point you make about graffiti! Years again, it was not as common. Sure, it was there, but most cars were free of it. Today, it's hard to take a shot of a train coming around a curve and not have four of the first five cars behind the engines tagged noticeably. For me, graffiti really detracts from an image.

By the way, glad to see you are a fellow Nikon man! The F-series was a great line!