Chinese loco in Chattanooga?

[Hoydie17]

Why doesn't it bother anyone when rail traffic increases because America is shipping more goods in from China, Canada and Mexico? NAFTA is responsible for the biggest rail traffic increase since WW2. Our trade with China has increased intermodal traffic by leaps and bounds. Trade is what keeps our railroads running.

So exactly how does buying a trophy engine so Corman can feel good about himself contribute to increasing rail traffic and helping more American's get work?   What, half a dozen guys that happen to be very good at working with steam engines?  Where's he going to get the parts when it breaks?  China again?  

Also, the QJ does have its place in history. They were the last mainline steam locomotives produced and operated in the world. Thats pretty significant and when you tell Joe Schmo on the street that the locomotive was built in 1986 and last operated in 2005 they are pretty impressed.

It has it's place in CHINESE history, not AMERICAN history.   Steam engines went away in the late 50's in the US, if you tell me as an average Joe Schmoe that you restored an engine that hasn't run under it's own power in 40+ years, THAT will impress me far more than having one that was running less than 5 years ago.

Here is my last food for thought. I do agree there are plenty of American locomotives that could make great canidates for restoration but, they are either too big (611 and 1218), owned by museums (1522) or years and years away from operation (2716). Just because there is a locomotive in a park doesn't mean its a great canidate for restoration. Look at what has happened with the 1361. Chances are if there is a locomotive at Steamtown that isn't running or being restored, it's probably not the best canidate for restoration. Besides, if you are upset now, how upset would you be if RJ Corman restored 2716 and painted it red and silver and put his name on the side?

You're right, but the did Corman even ask?  I happen to know personally many of the employees at Steamtown have a list of the locomotives most likely to be restored.  Hell, some of them have a very detailed restoration plan already in place!  All they needed was someone willing to finance the work!  Many of them will require less of an investment than RJ paid for this hunk of junk, just more time to restore, but because he could get his rocks off about having an operating steam engine faster this way, that's the route he took.  

Like the rest of America, we can get it faster and cheaper from China, so that's what we'll do, yet another example of how far America has gone down the shitter.    

[jcmark4501]

Actually, Grand Canyon Railway has bought many parts from China. Western Maryland Scenic has a stoker from China on their locomotive. Wouldn't be anything new for steam guys to get parts from China.

[JCagle]

I was under the impression that most of the flue tubes had to come from either China or Germany.

I know people have batted around the "look at intermodal traffic" side, but consider this.. There was a time when the textile industry was big in the area where I am from. The railroads hauled more than just the finished product from a port to a destination. The raw cotton was shipped by rail to be ginned and carded, it was then reloaded and sent to a spinning mill. After the spinning mill it was taken to a cloth mill and then to a finishing mill. After the finished product was complete it would then be sent to market. Now the cotton trade has the product coming in finished or almost finished. The traffic was always there it was just in different forms. There may have been more traffic in the past, in fact. I'm sure this is the same with many other products and industries.

The things America makes are growing fewer and fewer, and as less is actually made here the intermodal traffic will rise. They are pulling traffic from other forms and replacing it with intermodal.

[jcmark4501]

I just want to know how a Steam Locomotive generated a debate on the global economy, lol. I think beggars should not be choosers and we should just be happy we have steam back in this neck of the woods. Who knows what could happen next? Mr. Corman may decide to restore and engine after he runs this for a few years. I doubt anyone ever thought the Southern program would become what it was, and it was started by one guy buying a steam locomotive.

[Batman]

man this thread sure took a strange twist .

[Michael Knight]

man this thread sure took a strange twist .

exactly

[southern2716]

You could also just plan on replacing it and save the cost of having to prove it. The cost of a new boiler wouldn't be as expensive if you didn't have to spend the money on an ultrasound. I would think an experienced consultant could have a fairly good idea if it would be worth jumping into without having to test it, so it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to tell if it was worth restoring or not before you had to pay the cost for ultrasounding.

This was all done in China, supervised by Dennis Daugherty of the California State Railroad Museum.  Additional boiler bracing and other minor alterations were necessary to bring the locomotive up to FRA Specifications.  It received a full overhaul on both the boiler and running gear.

Andrew Durden
Atlanta, GA

[Norm]

man this thread sure took a strange twist .

exactly

How about those Wildcats?  Billy G finally got a good win.

[KyBlue]

Yeah, as much as I hate to say it, I was surprised they managed to pull that off. They looked like a totally different team IMO

[JCagle]

You could also just plan on replacing it and save the cost of having to prove it. The cost of a new boiler wouldn't be as expensive if you didn't have to spend the money on an ultrasound. I would think an experienced consultant could have a fairly good idea if it would be worth jumping into without having to test it, so it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to tell if it was worth restoring or not before you had to pay the cost for ultrasounding.

This was all done in China, supervised by Dennis Daugherty of the California State Railroad Museum.  Additional boiler bracing and other minor alterations were necessary to bring the locomotive up to FRA Specifications.  It received a full overhaul on both the boiler and running gear.

Andrew Durden
Atlanta, GA

I was refering to the statement that it would cost several hundred thousand to ultrasound the boiler. I was just pointing out it would be foolish to automatically have it ultasounded.

As for those of you missing the connection between buying a Chinese locomotive and economics... there are many people that are displeased that Corman would bypass all of the domestic engines that could be candidates for restoration and buy something Chinese. There is no connectivity to something that was made and ran in China. The purchase of one almost ready to run from China is just a symptom of the mindset of America today.

As for the beggars not being choosers... Many of us live nowhere near where this thing will run, so it being in the KY area doesn't affect many of us at all. Furthermore, it will never be able to run on NS, so it's not like it's going on tour or anything. It's just a play pretty for Corman up there. Bottom line is it is not more or less old hat. It rain on an NS train, and now its at it's destination. It was something you don't see every day, but it's not the second coming of Christ or anything. If they would have covered it with a tarp it would have been the event of the year.

[southern man]

         

       No
       American
       Factories
       Taking
       Applications

                 

[TB4JY]

         

       No
       American
       Factories
       Taking
       Applications

                 

I'll have to remember that one.

[warpath42]

   True its not the second coming but it is interesting.  Look back at all the varied debate it's sparked.  Yes its a shame to not "buy American" but we all do it, that's why Wal-Mart's slogan is Low Prices and the parking lot's always full.  Just because a guy owns his own railroad doesn't mean he's exempt.  I doubt he got where he is listening to anybody and everybody with an opinion.  I recieved a Tyco Steam Locomotive for christmas as a kid and started my love of trains.  About three years ago I ran across the Corman diner train and the Wildcat and Cardinal engines from Paducah? in downtown Frankfort.  I had a new digital camera and started taking pictures.  Now I try to photograph anything railroad I can.  Thirty years give or take in between. I owe RJC for renewing my interest in trains. That big bright red engine brought me back to railroading.   I don't know why alot of people don't seem to like RJC much.  To be honest I don't know what makes NS great and CSX suck, other than the fact this is a NS forum.  I'm sure as time goes on I'll find my own reasons to lean one way or the other.   Earlier someone said"A chinese steam loco has no American history."  That was true till January 2008.  Already it's gaining history.  It traveled from Florida to Kentucky, in the open, for everyone to see.  Thats a lot of grade crossings with a lot of people who would never consider going to a rail museum.  They don't know whether it's American or Chinese just that its not something they see everyday.  Don't kid yourself saying it doesn't affect you if your not in the Kentucky area, it already has.  If it didn't pass through your neck of the woods, whose to say someone didn't pass by it.  You can't tell me some kid didn't see that engine somewhere along the way and begin a life-long love of trains. Sure this sounds really melodramatic but isn't always.  Look at the best pictures posted here, they have a Wow factor to them.  Why because we love trains.  This engine won't matter squat to most people in twenty years but to someone it will be the story of how they first got into railroading.  Thats how hobbies grow and history gets made.  I wish RJC good luck and hope they put the engine to good use.  I would certainly go see it, and put a bug in their ear about some of the available US Steam.
     And if RJC paints that thing solid Red I'll personally drive to Nicholasville and blow it up.
Disclaimer: The above statement is a joke and does not imply actual violence or damage to persons or property.
    You can never be too careful. 

[Backyard]

  I thought of that long ago...buy the boiler, from China.  No inspection necessary.

No one doubts the advantages of shipping from the Far East, to Europe, via the United States of America. 

The Pirates along the seas south of Africa, did this.

Bill Purdy, and his wife Sarah in their retirement together, spent some time, in South Africa, and China, and Bill was enthralled with how intense the steam effort was in China, to service and maintain steam.  They were full of stories, that would take your breath, of the history of their knowledge, let alone the Chinese technology.

[JCagle]

   True its not the second coming but it is interesting.  Look back at all the varied debate it's sparked.  Yes its a shame to not "buy American" but we all do it, that's why Wal-Mart's slogan is Low Prices and the parking lot's always full.  Just because a guy owns his own railroad doesn't mean he's exempt.  I doubt he got where he is listening to anybody and everybody with an opinion.  I recieved a Tyco Steam Locomotive for christmas as a kid and started my love of trains.  About three years ago I ran across the Corman diner train and the Wildcat and Cardinal engines from Paducah? in downtown Frankfort.  I had a new digital camera and started taking pictures.  Now I try to photograph anything railroad I can.  Thirty years give or take in between. I owe RJC for renewing my interest in trains. That big bright red engine brought me back to railroading.   I don't know why alot of people don't seem to like RJC much.  To be honest I don't know what makes NS great and CSX suck, other than the fact this is a NS forum.  I'm sure as time goes on I'll find my own reasons to lean one way or the other.   Earlier someone said"A chinese steam loco has no American history."  That was true till January 2008.  Already it's gaining history.  It traveled from Florida to Kentucky, in the open, for everyone to see.  Thats a lot of grade crossings with a lot of people who would never consider going to a rail museum.  They don't know whether it's American or Chinese just that its not something they see everyday.  Don't kid yourself saying it doesn't affect you if your not in the Kentucky area, it already has.  If it didn't pass through your neck of the woods, whose to say someone didn't pass by it.  You can't tell me some kid didn't see that engine somewhere along the way and begin a life-long love of trains. Sure this sounds really melodramatic but isn't always.  Look at the best pictures posted here, they have a Wow factor to them.  Why because we love trains.  This engine won't matter squat to most people in twenty years but to someone it will be the story of how they first got into railroading.  Thats how hobbies grow and history gets made.  I wish RJC good luck and hope they put the engine to good use.  I would certainly go see it, and put a bug in their ear about some of the available US Steam.
     And if RJC paints that thing solid Red I'll personally drive to Nicholasville and blow it up.
Disclaimer: The above statement is a joke and does not imply actual violence or damage to persons or property.
    You can never be too careful. 

I don't see how in any way shape or form the wok rocket affects me other than conversation. Some kid seeing it and becoming interested doesn't realy affect me in any tangible way.  I in no way shape or form said that Corman should be held to a higher standard as far as buying things from overseas. I actually beleive Mr Corman has listened to many people that have an opinion... they own shares of his company, sit on boards, panels, and other forms of helping to steer and direct a company. He may be the face of the company to the public, but there is no way the company could exist without listening to and trusting other people's opinions. The only way they will ever know that people want something done is if it is expressed. I doubt that Corman has the power to read minds. He may not care, but the next railroad might consider the public sentiment when they buy a piece for pr. Lets face it all the talk has been a lot of free advertising, and it came from him getting something he wanted.

The history of that engine is distinctly Chinese. It's the history of their railroads, engineering, and people. . China has a very different culture and way of life( that's why these engines were in full service less than a decade ago). To fully understand and appreciate it you would have to see it in the place where it fits. I don't think you'd expect to see all the nuances of a painting in a dark ally. Taking it out of it's element is like listening to a sitcom in your car. Yeah you know it's a tv show and it's funny, but you lose so much. The main reason why we even remember Bill Purdy or Jack Taylor's names is because they are a part of that place and time.

Preference for one railroad over another one is kind of like the Ford vs Chevy debate. There's a lot that could cause those feelings. Maybe it's where you grew up, maybe it's a larger system, or even proximity to one railroad. I would think a lot of people are drawn to NS because of the size of the railroad and the system.  Some people take it to a great extreme.  I'd say most people don't realy "hate" other railroads, it's just a way to take a stab at others. CSX seems to always have some kind of accident so someone starts with the Crash Spill Explode or whatever. Some people joke about nascar drivers, or sports teams, and some are that way with railroads.