Signal reading

[steveiez]

I know how to interrupt the old PRR signal's, which are disappearing. Question...how do you read the new NS signals, and are all railroads using the same signal system nation wide?

[E.M. Bell]

unfortunately, the short answer to your question is NO, all RR's don't use the same signals, and the same combination of colors and position of them does NOT mean the same thing on every RR, or for that matter, even on the same district of the same RR.  

This has caused a lot of issues in the past, including a Amtrak wreck near Chicago a few years ago where the engineer mis-read a signal on the NS, and took it as a less restricting signal than it was.The result of that was he rear-ended a stopped freight train.   This is one reason you are seeing the CPL's fall and new signals go in, as this is just a step in the right direction to standardize everything.

For most new hires, the signal test can be the single hardest test they have to take, and they don't give you any "do overs" either..

[E.M. Bell]

In the most current version of the NS system rulebook, the signal section takes up 29 pages. That is divided into sections that break down N&W (position lights), former Conrail, and the "standard" NS signals. Depending on where you might work, you could see ALL of those in a trip, or if you happen to have to operate over a foreign RR, then you have to have that rulebook and know those indications as well.  

As we said before, not all indications have the same meaning in the same place. Most would think that RED means stop..right??... Red can mean stop OR restricting. Depending on the type of signal, how many lights you have, if the signal has a Numberplate or not, blah blah blah...its confusing. If you have ever wondered why some RR's (including the NS) require trains to announce by radio the indication of a signal as soon as its seen, its to make sure they have seen it, and understood  its meaning correctly. While some say this practice only clutters up the radio, it IS a life saving rule, and DOES work when everyone is doing it, and paying attention to what others around them are doing. Case in point, a few years ago on the CNO&TP North of Lexington KY, a major signal malfunction occurred, which caused the WRONG indication at a intermediate signal. A Northbound train came around, saw the wrong signal (even though at the time they saw it, the crew did not know there was a problem) and called the indication on the radio. A Southbound train crew heard the Northbound call the signal, and for what ever actions those crews took, managed to communicate there was about to be a problem, and both trains got stopped, looking at each other on single track (and right across from a propane dealer!). Calling signals, and alert crews meant that live where saved, and one huge mess was adverted..

I have heard some of the old heads say that "if its not all red, its not red at all...Highball"...thats a fairly accurate summary, if not a little scary..

[D300]

All the above is good info:

I will throw out the most dangerous of all the variable indications that mean the same thing: Restricting. On CSX it is white (off white/lunar) and means move at a speed you can stop short of anything. On some divisions of NS that is red over yellow. WELL on other divisions of NS and other railroads R/Y means diverging approach which is much higher speed than restricting. This is what happened in Chicago if I remember correctly to the Amtrak crew mentioned above, the crew got the R/Y and ran like it was an approach (diverging) when they should have been going ultra slow (restricting). The came on a stopped train where there was limited vision and hit the rear of the train.

The reason this is the most dangerous circumstance is most other similar easily confused signals, even if they mean different things kind of keep you in the same speed category. (The following is described in layman's terms.)  For example a yellow over green can mean two things based on division/RR -- one indication is approach diverging and the other is medium approach which in reality means "approach to a yellow or slow down you are about to get a yellow." Either way you are running about the same speed and if you misinterpret your train will be at about the same speed and could in theory react and compensate.

None of these situations became problems until railroads merged, created run-thrus of crews on multiple divisions. Amtrak was most likely at the forefront and were the first crews to deal with the multiple indications.

I welcome any corrections and additions.

D300

[steveiez]

Thanks for all of that! I would have failed the test...thankfully I'm too old to be one anyway!

[Ptrainman]

Yes, NS does have 2 head intermediate signals. There is an example at MP L55.8 on the Durham District, on the northbound side it is a singal head but on the southbound side it is a double head to show approach diverging for the siding at Sinai. There is another example at MP L35.1 on the Durham District, on the northbound side it has 2 heads to show approach diverging for the the Vabrook connection at the junction with the Altavista District and on the southbound side it is a singal head.

[RalphWL]

We have 2 head intermediate signals on the Southern Tier, MP SR274, MP SR389 and IIRC, on the siding between Alden and Marilla.

[Backyard]

  Back in the mid '90's, I went to McDonough for a NS Training Center tour...

Upon hearing we would get to run the TS-3 full motion simulator, I began to study the timetable examples of signals.  I made an index card for each indication(there were only ten) & learned the rules accordingly.

I was prepared to call signals whilst running the simulator...but there were no signals on the Training Center Route....it's all dark-territory...!

[Conrail Tweety]

Take the practice exams for NORAC, NS, and NW Signals here:
https://teds.nscorp.com/ca/ACT_SIG_Practice/Practice_Sig.html

Dennis

[E.M. Bell]

Thanks for the link Dennis. I just took the test for the regular NS signals, and missed Two. If things are like they used to be, thats a FAIL   guess I better brush up a bit!

[RalphWL]

The rules tests are Multiple choice.

[lwjabo]

When I hired in 71 so my first Rule class as it was called them was 1972. Then they simply got you in a room and went over what they thought were the most important rules. They often took a name from the list we all had to sign and asked them about the rule. Often picking on new hires. The classes were separated for road and yard. Many worked in the yard for 20 years and did not know the signals. They seldom went on the main line so that was the reason. Then about 1978 or so the FRA came up with the rule exam. Then went over the rules on the test and then the test. All were multichoice or true and false. I always answered the question in my head and looked for a match. Some where around 98 they turned it into a all day class. The time in class was on the Hours and Service. So you had to miss a trip. Before that it was a class you did not get payed for. Getting off at say 1am then trying to get back to the yard to make a 8am class was hard. I followed a man into the class and they shut the door in my face and would not let me in. I got off about 2am and the board was turning fast so had to squeeze it in. On out lying jobs they gave special classes. I was on a work train and we were out several weeks. There were at least three crews working on the work trains so they had a special class for us. Today you get a basic days pay for the class. Getting payed for loss time was better. Most would loose two days on the main line. So got two basic days. Being honest it would take the officers days just to grade a class. So it was much easier to have the multichoice. If you failed the test you will be took out of service till you passed it.

[RalphWL]

Well, multiple choice isn't really all that easy, they like to change words around to try to mess you up. I've been doing this for over 20 years, while I can't quote every rule, word for word, I do know what the rules are and how to run my trains according to them. If I am unsure of a rule, I can look it up in the rule book, that we are required to carry. Up here, we run under three different sets of rules, NS, NORAC and GCOR.

[memphis2857]

Take the practice exams for NORAC, NS, and NW Signals here:
https://teds.nscorp.com/ca/ACT_SIG_Practice/Practice_Sig.html

Dennis

This is the exact test taken at McDonough by all the CT's and LET's.  They take you to the computer lab and this is the test you take.  As a CT you are only required to get an 80%  When you go back as an LET you have to get 100%

[Conductor]

Two head intermediates are pretty common.  Almost any time there is a siding coming up, a two head signal will be there to show Approach Diverging or Advance Approach.